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Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

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Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#181

Aside from the measurable harmful effects, these companies have simply accrued too much political power. Being able to manipulate what 100s of millions or billions of people see every day on their screens is an unprecedented amount of power. Democratic nations are not going to tolerate these companies much longer.

Not that I like social media or tech companies (I detest them). But it's not a special case. Media companies, cable companies, newspapers, etc. They've all enjoyed the ability to manipulate and 'guide' what people see and what opinions they form, for a long time. It's nothing new.

Really, it's extremely new. The feedback loop for old media was very coarse. They knew how many newspapers they sold and had an idea of who the repeat customers were. Editorial could be said to be linked to bumps in opinion polls, but only very loosely. Nobody knew how or if anything worked. It was all theories and snake oil and "conventional wisdom". The old adage was that 50% of marketing was effective but nobody knew which 50%.

For old media to have the same qualities as new media, newspaper publishers would have to know in real time if you were a new or returning reader, how long you spent reading page 32, which article you talked about with your friends, who your friends were, what their and your demographic profile was and then be able to serve up customised content within an instant based on all of those factors. And then say that they aren't responsible for any of it because they're just a platform.

Really, the only thing that old and new media have in common is that they are broadcasting words and images to the general public. The comparison ends there.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#182
post #41

The FTC is looking to hire child psychologists to evaluate the affects of these platforms, so expect more of this to come https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/23/ftc-plans-to-hire-child-psyc... There's a thin line to be walked between privacy and regulation, but Facebook's own research has pointed at the harmful effects of Instagram on the mental health of children... so I think some scrutiny here is overdue. https://www.the…

> Facebook's own research has pointed at the harmful effects of Instagram on the mental health of children Facebook’s own research has found both positive and negative effects, depending on the child’s status among their peers. The Verge is quick to point out that: > Instagram makes teen girls feel worse about their bodies but more discreet in reminding people that fashion magazines, including The Cut (also published…

is it safe to assume that you've worked at meta at some point? because this comes across as a little defensive

The post is about instagram so I'm talking about instagram, feel free to post an article about magazines if you want to talk about magazines... legislation aimed towards instagram will create precedence to pursue other platforms like tiktok and can also become ingrained as policy. Just because we're focusing on one subject here doesn't mean we're ignoring the others or playing favorites.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#183

Irrespective of the incidental value "Meta" provides, let's keep in mind that no business has a right to exist independently from its standing in the system of laws and the health of its users - especially children. Social media companies argue that they can't monitor every post and do appropriate age verification online because it would be "impossible to scale". Well, tough luck. Not being able to scale is YOUR prob…

> Not being able to scale is YOUR problem, not MINE. Following your reasoning, anything that could possibly harm children should be banned. Cars sometimes kill children, shall we ban them too? Now, suppose we do ban Meta. Where should we stop? should we ban open decentralized social media too? You may not like social media, but a lot of people use them without any particular issues.

Cars aren't a great example, they're a huge problem and we'd be better off if we weren't all dependent on having a car

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#184

> with features like “infinite scroll” and persistent alerts used to hook young users > Meta has harnessed powerful and unprecedented technologies Are we talking about infinite scroll or heroine? It would make more sense to sue Kelloggs over Lucky Charms commercials, but we're all use to them so there's no outrage. It's politically popular to sue big tech and especially Meta. That's the whole story. To be clear, the…

> It would make more sense to sue Kelloggs over Lucky Charms commercials, but we're all use to them so there's no outrage.

Of all the examples you might offer, it's ironic that you chose this one!

There's a TON of political history around breakfast cereal composition and advertising as well as ongoing reform campaigns and media criticism. In some cases, this has settled into formal regulations about things like what cereal boxes can look like and when advertisements can run. In other cases, it's involved collective industry "good behavior" meant to forestall regulation. But it continues to a problem because financial incentive always leads to optimizing for whatever can be gotten away with.

And yeah, social media companies are maturing as an industry and are now due to play that same perpetual game of government regulation, industry self-policing, and boundary-testing.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#185
post #134

Irrespective of the incidental value "Meta" provides, let's keep in mind that no business has a right to exist independently from its standing in the system of laws and the health of its users - especially children. Social media companies argue that they can't monitor every post and do appropriate age verification online because it would be "impossible to scale". Well, tough luck. Not being able to scale is YOUR prob…

> Social media companies argue that they can't monitor ever post and do appropriate age verification online because it would be "impossible to scale". Well, tough luck. Not being able to scale is YOUR problem, not MINE. 1000%. I think there are more complex problems in the world that are solved that this. If you look at youth and teenagers activities in Instagram, their photos and videos, and social graph I don't thi…

I think monitoring every post is a pretty solved problem, and it only gets better (worse?). Censoring has varying degrees of success, whether that is outright deleting a post/user or just hiding it from "not interested" users.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#186

Irrespective of the incidental value "Meta" provides, let's keep in mind that no business has a right to exist independently from its standing in the system of laws and the health of its users - especially children. Social media companies argue that they can't monitor every post and do appropriate age verification online because it would be "impossible to scale". Well, tough luck. Not being able to scale is YOUR prob…

> Not being able to scale is YOUR problem, not MINE. Following your reasoning, anything that could possibly harm children should be banned. Cars sometimes kill children, shall we ban them too? Now, suppose we do ban Meta. Where should we stop? should we ban open decentralized social media too? You may not like social media, but a lot of people use them without any particular issues.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE explain how that's in any remote way equivalent??

"hurr durr lets ban cars now". PLEASE.

Unlike social media, to drive a car you need a license, you need insurance, and if you run over a kid you most likely will go to prison. Or maybe you weren't driving your car, but it was unsecured, or had a mechanical malfunction. You are still responsible and you will in one way or another have to pay.

But, you can create ads on social media targeting minors with toxic messaging, and nobody bats a damn eye.

It's about time that online commercial endeavors, like ad networks, get reigned in and have rules applied to them, same as for other activities.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can see it now ... young girls cannot see content showcasing skinny or 'classically beautiful' women, because it gives them a skewed perspective of 'beauty' that may lead to eating disorders. Do you actually have any real exposure to the kind of things that are targeted to women on social media? It's more like young girls shouln't get sold that it's reasonable for them to achieve with a full schoolday and budget…

yes, I've watched my wife and female friends/family scroll Instagram ... every 3rd post is an example you provided. Body image/beauty issues for women were a thing before Instagram and social media so I don't think regulating the nature of advertisements would change much, at least in any measurable way. There are infinite influencers creating similar content as the advertisements.

If you've seen your wife and female friends scroll Instagram then you know you were inaccurately describing the scenario as trying to ban "classically beautiful" women. The problem is you think it doesn't change anything, maybe because you're ignorant that Instagram knows they are measurably worsening, on a mass scale, the self esteem and body image of young girls. Instagram has the data on all these girls and knows they have a causative relationship with negative body image.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#189

> with features like “infinite scroll” and persistent alerts used to hook young users > Meta has harnessed powerful and unprecedented technologies Are we talking about infinite scroll or heroine? It would make more sense to sue Kelloggs over Lucky Charms commercials, but we're all use to them so there's no outrage. It's politically popular to sue big tech and especially Meta. That's the whole story. To be clear, the…

we’re talking about dopamine production and that’s always what we wind up regulating

so, good observation. regulate aspects of these products like heroin

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not following their reasoning at all, it's a strawman. His point was that a business shouldn't be able to claim that doing something we want/require them to do is too hard and just not do it, which is what they currently do with content moderation.

How do you know they're not doing it and that it's unreasonable to ask more considering the difficulty of the task? His point is that there's no excuse for not doing it, even if the task is impossible. We don't ask the impossible to car manufacturers, why should it be different with Meta? who's to decide?

It is for the society in which these companies operate and profit to decide, not the companies themselves. And if it is indeed “too difficult”, which we all know just means it will hurt profits to a degree that is unacceptable to shareholders, too bad, they can either make less money or shut it down.

If a cop can kill a man in broad daylight for selling loose cigarettes, we should be able to kill a company like meta for breaking the law.

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