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The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

cacm.acm.org

231–240 of 240 posts

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#232
post #110
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically that reward is going to be: 1. more work 2. nice words and then more work 3. nice words, more work and then she is asked to do the same for another person's task who is then fired Sorry to be cynical here, but it is very rare for managment to reward the few people that do a better than good job with more free time or less work.

She doesn't have to tell anyone

> She doesn't have to tell anyone

She doesn't because there is an app on her work machine that gathers all kinds of useful data on usage of such computer. Sooner or later someone will notice and there will be consequences for doing so. There are no trophies for running some unauthorized software on companies data and documents.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#233
post #6

The failure is primarily due to stagnation in single core speed improvements since 2003, compared to previous decades. Yes we have more cores now, and single cores have got faster, but nothing like the scale of the 1990's when raw clock speeds increased 150x. Moore's law is about the number of transistors, not the speed of the device. More cores are good, but software is hard to parallelize, despite decent efforts fr…

> For most users, a single core CPU running at 30GHz would appear faster than 32 cores running at 2GHz.

This is not certain except for single threaded programs not accessing main memory, for which this claim is trivial and mostly academic. It is well-known that increase of frequency of CPU by a factor of k does not always result in equal factor k for increase of performance, mainly because of memory access speed not increasing in the same way.

"Appear faster" depends on instruction translation, exploitation of paralelism and memory access speed getting faster in some commensurate way, and nobody has yet built a machine doing those all those things at close to 30GHz to see how fast they are. It's possible that while very small CPU can possibly run at 30GHz, other bigger and more distant ingredients can't, e.g. main memory (heat and frequency causing too many errors to be practical). Already the present-day CPUs are too fast for the main memory they use. In intensive data processing, often CPU wastes most of the time waiting for memory. Making it wait faster won't help performance.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#234
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditionally they'd be called "elevator operator" or "doorman" or some equally mundane/superfluous job.

Interesting choices, given that both of those are putting humanity into what would otherwise be purely mechanical jobs. Practicality of having someone able to adapt to novel situations aside, there's something to be said for just having a human interaction.

From a purely profit focused standpoint, these jobs should very rarely exist. And yet, due to other incentives they do. E.g. because the owner might like being greeted on their way to work.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving people raises for automating things is minimizing expense. Suppose Alice is making $40,000/year and comes up with a way to automate a third of her job. So you start paying her $50,000/year and give her some other work to do. Then Bob and Carol each find a way to automate a third of their own jobs, so now they all make $50,000 and have made Don redundant. The company is now paying $150,000 in total salary inste…

Bob, Carol and Alice might not feel comfortable with costing Don his job. This can be for purely empathetic reasons, but also because they realize they’re all potential future Dons if these automations continue.

> they realize they’re all potential future Dons if these automations continue.

That isn't how the economy works. Bob, Carol, Alice and the boss are now collectively making $40,000+/year more than they did before. Where does this money go? To buy something they couldn't previously afford, made by Don at his new job somewhere else, which was created to meet the increase in demand caused by the increase in productivity.

The only way automation reduces employment is if it makes goods cost less and then people choose to work less because working less still allows them to buy everything they want. But in general people don't do that. Given the choice between having the same stuff they have now and working fewer hours or having more stuff than they do now and working the same number of hours, they pick the second one.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#236
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Literacy rates in the US are pretty high I think, compared to where we were before k-12 schooling became standard. 'Post hoc ergo propter hoc.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc By and large, kids from well-off parents were always more literate, and they still are. And the US is a lot richer now than it used to be.

So your reasoning is "elites have always been more educated then average, so standard education cannot have had an effect in average literacy"? It is far more reasonable (and verifiable) to conclude that widespread standard education is more than just correlated with higher average rates of literacy.

Byran Caplan's Case Against Education might be a good place to start. The author has collected a lot of statistics.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#237
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Literacy rates in the US are pretty high I think, compared to where we were before k-12 schooling became standard. 'Post hoc ergo propter hoc.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc By and large, kids from well-off parents were always more literate, and they still are. And the US is a lot richer now than it used to be.

If schools aren’t even teaching basic things like arithmetic and literacy, then what are they? Just a place to park kids while their parents work? In that case, might as well also do some programming classes, right? If the other option is learning nothing. I mean, if you want to totally revamp the education system, I’m here for it, but I guess that seems like a bigger project to me.

Bryan Caplan's Case Against Education might be a good place to start, if you want to have a broader discussion about the education system.

And yes, baby sitting is a big part of the package that schools do provide in practice.

> In that case, might as well also do some programming classes, right?

I don't think programming classes would do any more damage than the current curriculum.

> If the other option is learning nothing.

Well, giving the kids free time or more physical activity might also be useful?

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#239
post #3

I understand this is ACM, but I would say the decline has strictly been a failure of software . Specifically, corporate IT's failure to deliver general purpose development tools usable by anyone in a company to make computers do work for them (aka programming). There's still a ton of general value that could be delivered by general purpose processors/computers. But instead, most non-programmers live in a Kafkaesque r…

It would be nice if there was a general expectation by now that people would have a sort of “intro to scripting” type class in high school. Not everyone has to be a programmer, in the same way not everyone needs to be an author, but everybody ought to be able to write a memo, email, or shopping list.

So, banks do actually do a lot of this. They hire people who are not really programmers by background and then teach them what they call robotic automation.

This has nothing to do with actual robots, which can make it confusing if you come across this without having the right context. What they mean by this is they have a commercial tool that implements a very simple scripting language, often in a structured way so you can edit it without using an editor. The tool has lots of commands for automating GUI actions like "find this window by title", "click that button", "load this web page", "find text that looks like this", "loop" and so on.

The idea here is that a lot of processes involve moving data from one app or window to another in a repetitive manner, so if you have a programming language optimized for that and designed for beginners, you can automate a lot of stuff. It's not a scripting language like Python, it's totally focused on driving GUIs. And it works! Robotic automation is a huge deal in some companies.

I helped an ex-girlfriend learn this stuff at one point. She sort of bluffed her way through the interview, they were looking for people with more computing experience but she was a woman so the hiring was more or less automatic despite her knowing nothing about computers at all (woke companies ...) Despite the tool being designed for such people she still found it really really hard though! Some people just really struggle with structured thinking of any kind. Writing down instructions in a formal way was just totally alien to her. The tool tried its best to help users avoid mistakes but fundamentally you still have to be able to think in terms of loops, lists, multi-step processes and so on. I think she did eventually get there but it took a long time and she failed the internal exams the first time.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#240
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your reasoning is "elites have always been more educated then average, so standard education cannot have had an effect in average literacy"? It is far more reasonable (and verifiable) to conclude that widespread standard education is more than just correlated with higher average rates of literacy.

Byran Caplan's Case Against Education might be a good place to start. The author has collected a lot of statistics.

For the second time in as many days, I find myself saying on HN: your argument only makes sense if you reduce all societal logic to economic logic. What a way to live.
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