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Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

nytimes.com

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Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#91

Post by jampekka »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #36
suzzer99 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm not arguing shrooms should be illegal. I don't think they're any worse than pot, and actually are the one drug I think everyone should do. But I think there are some serious risks to heavy, prolonged use that probably aren't well-studied or understood. Also for all I know her problems stem from the acid and not the shrooms.

They are certainly an order of magnitude more powerful than pot. You can fairly easily have a psychologically very difficult experience at larger doses. I’m all for people trying them but the effects shouldn’t be underestimated. I’ve had powerful feelings of anxiety, love, euphoria, mania or sadness on different times. Very different from pot which has a pretty uniform and predictable effect on me.

You can fairly easily have a very difficult experience with pot too. I have way worse and stronger experiences with pot than with mushrooms/LSD.

Cannabis is quite a powerful drug for many. A lot more powerful than most "hard drugs" like stimulants, empatogens, opioids or sedatives, which don't "mind fuck" at all unless you do them days on end or ridiculous dosages.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#92

Post by achenet »

HKH2 wrote: post #59
explaininjs wrote: post #30

Been there, done that. Have the postcard. I got to experience the even more fun version where you feel like your death is imminent, you watch your surroundings stop rendering chunk by chunk, and your long term friend is telling you it is indeed all a simulation that everyone but me knew about, and I really was dying (more accurately: going "offline" for an upgrade, and my "spirit" wouldn't be persisted across version…

> It is interesting to observe, retrospectively, how the brain can adopt a new set of axioms and coerce every one of the "senses" into supporting those axioms - no matter how detached from "our typical understanding of reality" (whatever that means) they are. Brainwashing is real. Just make people really emotionally unstable and then hit them with an onslaught of social pressure with a vision.

a more general take on the subject

https://opentheory.net/2019/11/neural-annealing-toward-a-neu...

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#93

Post by DiggyJohnson »

kykeonaut wrote: post #73
legitster wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Dr. Janis Phelps, director of the Center for Psychedelic Therapies and Research at the California Institute of Integral Studies, said she and other researchers had been wary of the decriminalization movement. Many in the field had worked for years to remain strictly scientific, hoping to avoid government crackdowns, and to give the U.S. Food and Drug Administration time to fully review the effects…

The problem here is that there is no evidence. All the evidence of negative effects so far is anecdotal, which in reality calls for more research in the area [0]. In addition, only about 0.2% report having sought emergency treatment [1] when using psylocibin. [0] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... [1] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/02698811221084...

As someone who partakes in psychedelics to a moderate degree, I don’t think it makes any sense at all to dismiss the very many negative outcomes as “no evidence”. Perhaps it’s under-researched, but your comment strikes me as ideological and/or hyperbole.

Like with all treatments, it’s a careful balance of whether the risks are worth the positive health outcomes. But there’s no sense in denying that psychedelics, and thus psychedelic mental health treatment programs, have no evidence of potential issues.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#94

Post by DiggyJohnson »

donnythecroc wrote: post #71
grigri907 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too am fairly drug-averse. And after 40 years of avoiding all drugs but caffeine and alcohol, I dipped my toe into psilocybin and found not only was it profoundly therapeutic in terms of self-acceptence, self-love, and anxiety-reduction, I found after 3 or 4 uses, I had no further interest in it whatsoever. Is my experience universal? Of course not, but an anecdote to consider alongside yours.

Same here. Did it once and it saved my life. Point is it was only legally accessible to rich people. I.e. I had to fly to amsterdam pay for pre and post psychotherapy and multi day care. This is so wildly different to recreational use.

For what it’s worth you can find psilocybin in the US with with right network that does not require exorbitant costs or travel.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#95

Post by achenet »

ChatGTP wrote: post #11
suzzer99 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as the risks, I have a friend who's been "microdosing" acid and shrooms for a while, and recently had a legitimate psychotic break, thinking all of her life-long friends were in some kind of Truman Show-esque grand conspiracy against her. She ditched town and cut us all off for over a month. I can't say the drug use caused it, but I and the rest of her friends are of the opinion that it contributed (we all hav…

I can't say the drug use caused it, but I and the rest of her friends are of the opinion that it contributed (we all have experience with psychedelics, mostly in our younger days) I mean a cup of coffee might push the wrong person over the edge if they’re already in the midst or about to enter a serious mental health crisis? Of course you’d have to assume a psychoactive substance might contribute but maybe not? I’ve…

okay, this is probably going to very weird, but I've actually had two "no-self"/"ego-death" experiences whilst on drugs (I also meditate daily, but have not have an ego-dissolution from meditation, although I've had some trippy stuff happen).

I feel like that whole "world feeling it was telling you you didn't need to exist anymore" may have been it trying to point to you towards a no-self experience, which can actually be a very beautiful experience, where the 'you' experiencing reality fades away and there is just reality.

I hope this comment was okay with you, and I apologize if it disturbed you. Still, if you've got nothing better to do with your time, no-self may be something to look into.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#96

Post by DiggyJohnson »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #79
mhitza wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And we've also known about problems from psychedelic abuse for centuries. Such as?

Dancing, having parties, questioning authority, having a good time, etc etc

I love psychedelics, but this list shouldn’t include psychotic breaks or detachment from reality. I say this from first (second?) hand experience of friends I’m close with.

Not that I disagree with the contents of your list, but the effects of psychedelics are not always positive.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#97

Post by achenet »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #94
donnythecroc wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. Did it once and it saved my life. Point is it was only legally accessible to rich people. I.e. I had to fly to amsterdam pay for pre and post psychotherapy and multi day care. This is so wildly different to recreational use.

For what it’s worth you can find psilocybin in the US with with right network that does not require exorbitant costs or travel.

or grow it yourself even, that's what I did (albeit in France)

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#98

Post by achenet »

katzenversteher wrote: post #90
legitster wrote: post #17

I'm a fairly drug-averse person. I have no qualms about other people using them, but it took us over 30 years to really understand the implications of legalized opioids. And that was after a lengthy and expensive FDA process. So respect to all of the early adopters who have nothing to lose and are willing to put their own sanity at risk. I just don't understand people who in one breath curse the Sackler family but th…

At least "natural" psilocybin can't be compared with opiods at all, other that both are controlled substances. Psilocybin is not addictive, it's way to exhausting and also physiologically not possible. However, there is still a lot of potential for harm. The biggest one is triggering latent psychosis and other psychological issues followed by possibly dangerous actions under the influence of high doses. I also believ…

speaking as someone who has done a fair amount of recreational drug use, including shrooms -

you can totally use shrooms too much, because you're bored on summer break so you eat a bunch to spice up your day. It's honestly not the smartest use of it, but 'overuse'/spending too much time tripping is totally a thing.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#99

Post by Cthulhu_ »

legitster wrote: post #17

I'm a fairly drug-averse person. I have no qualms about other people using them, but it took us over 30 years to really understand the implications of legalized opioids. And that was after a lengthy and expensive FDA process. So respect to all of the early adopters who have nothing to lose and are willing to put their own sanity at risk. I just don't understand people who in one breath curse the Sackler family but th…

I think an important difference is that "legal" / manufactured drugs are patented, their formulation a trade secret, production fully in the hands of one party, etc. Weed and mushrooms can be grown by anyone; likewise, alcohol can be produced by anyone, but because of the risks in distilling it's illegal in most places to do so yourself.

My point is that the vilification of 'soft' drugs like mushrooms and weed is because the powers-that-be can't make a profit off of it. Or they could, but they would have to compete with home grown.

That doesn't stop the industry though; in the past few years in my country (Netherlands, famously tolerant but in a weird way to weed) you can get CBD oils and products off-the-shelf, alongside things like melatonin and whatnot. They've made it a consumer product and much more socially acceptable.

At the moment there's trials going on for the legal production of weed in greenhouses; up until then, all production was done illegaly in people's basements / attics, or via skirting the rules: legally you can have... I forgot, 1, 2 or 3 plants in your house (it used to be 7 but then the plants got bigger). There's "companies" now (they call themselves a foundation, charity or private club) that will offer to put a grow tent in your house if you have a spare room, just needs some electricity and water, they'll come and harvest it once it's done and you get a share of it and / or paid for it.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#100

Post by achenet »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #79
mhitza wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And we've also known about problems from psychedelic abuse for centuries. Such as?

Dancing, having parties, questioning authority, having a good time, etc etc

your comment made me laugh, but -

you could say the same thing about alcohol, and I think you'd agree that alcohol is not an entirely benign substance.

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