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UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

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Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#111

Wow. UK surveillance is reaching Black Mirror levels.

The UK has always had that surveillance state thing wrapped in a friendly "frontend". Cops can visit you in your hometown because they are concerned about your posts or likes on social media, where such content doesn't have to be anything terribly offensive. And everyone ends up processed in their system. Reminds me a bit of Germany, except germans have more checks and balances, and many things like CCTV-everywhere of the UK, just wouldn't be legal there.

In both countries, low-level bureaucrats have extensive access to information about individuals, as well as broad attributions on what they can do with it, unlike the much maligned US, where these powers are much more separated.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#114

Note that people requesting information collected on themselves was enabled by the GDPR's information-related-to-me provisions, as retained after Brexit. I look forward to the Conservatives dismantling it after realizing that it's used against them.

Those provisions were introduced by the Data Protection Act 1984. At the time the legislation was introduced and passed, the Conservatives were in power. Search for 'Part III' and read the first item here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/35/enacted

I stand corrected! Thank you so much. I think I'll let my wrong assumptions above speak for themselves about my biases.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#115
post #109
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno... If I followed you around while in public and recording everything you said and did, in public, is that surveillance?

It is very much legal, and law enforcement don't need a warrant to do so.

I think by sheer definition it would be surveillance though.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#116

I remember getting in arguments like a decade ago with British people who insisted that their lack of actual rights didn't matter and it was actually better to have privileges bestowed upon them by decree of their Queen as chosen by God. I wonder if any of them think differently now.

They were obviously joking, it was probably funny to watch an American (?) believe all that. More seriously, more people should be concerned about the Conservative party's disdain for the Human Rights Act and suggested intention to withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights: https://www.theguardian.com/law/human-rights-act (So you'll see the UK does have a list of rights, but like everything else it's a no…

The greatest difference between the US and the UK is just that: the US is a far more chaotic, violent, and generally unpleasant society compared to the UK, but it has an extraordinarily robust legal system and institutions that balance each other's power so that nobody is ever really in full control. The UK is a fairly pleasant place to live--at the moment. But things are starting to go downhill a bit, the government is becoming, ever so slowly, more authoritarian, and there is no legal backstop: in the end, the UK is an absolute monarchy with an embodied sovereign power, everything goes back to the Crown. If a far-right party comes to power and parliament becomes effectively dissolved, there is no telling how far and how rapidly they could change society.

That is simply not the case in the US, where, in fact, a right wing populist did come to power, did try to subvert the election process, did try to (indirectly) eliminate congress, and failed on every front. And he failed so hard that people might re-elect him since they don't think he could succeed the second time around anyway. Yes, people shoot each other all the time, the violent crime rate per capita is incredibly high, and society in general is plagued by inequality and racial tension. But the chaos drives the country forward. The UK is quiet, calm, comfortable (workers schedule their strikes!) There is no room for real organized dissent. It would take the dissolution of the monarchy for real change to come about, but they aren't going to do that here. They aren't going to do anything.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#117
post #47

What one posts on public social media sites is public . Is this surveillance?

Is installing a CCTV camera to record a public park surveillance? Yes of course, it is clearly and unambiguously labeled as such.

Surveillance is orthogonal to whether the subject is in public or in private.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it counts as surveillance when it's published material, but surveillance of public material does not seem so troublesome to me. For ex. if these teachers had instead published their complaints in old-fashioned letters-to-the-editor in print newspapers, I don't think anyone would be complaining that the government reads the newspapers. You could still complain about the chilling of dissent and the waste of res…

But, posting publicly to social media is almost exactly like a letter to the editor. You send your message to a company, the company reviews it, and then usually publishes it publicly for all to see. I would not feel "chilled" if someone (an employer, government, or whoever) trawled through my HN posts and made some kind of judgment or took action over what I post. I would expect it. It's public after all. I certainl…

Well sure, but what if you throw in the possibility of mistaken identity?

Might not be too chilling.. as long as they get the right person. Best hope other Ryan just parties it up a bit and nothing more sinister if you want to become a teacher.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because obviously the only possible options are a state surveillance program to flag up any teaching assistants who criticise any aspect of government policy and teaching bureaucracy, or the sort of "free speech absolutism" that concludes that literally nothing a teacher could say could ever render them unsuitable for a teaching job. No middle ground is possible.

Good to get the sarcastic straw man out of the way, so we can get back to the actual conversation.

[deleted]

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#120
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK Labour Party have a long history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. And Starmer, while a much better human being than any of the current Tory leadership, appears to be lacking in political instincts.

He's no different : https://skwawkbox.org/2023/03/02/starmers-labour-abstains-on...

He has made some worrying decisions. Including much sitting on the fence on important issues, such as Brexit. I'm not wild about him getting in with a massive majority.
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