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How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

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Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#71

Post by ip26 »

justsocrateasin wrote: post #61
onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any muscle is trainable. To some extent. If you cycle enough, you will develop muscles necessary to pull the pedal up. Additionally, the goal isn't to double your power output. It is to be better than the other cyclist. Even by just a tiny bit. I personally think that clipping the feet helps more with left right stability. Also, if you are pulling with one leg, you can potentially push more with the other. Normally y…

This is true for certain metabolic zones but not others. If you're sprinting then yes, you get a higher power output while pulling up on the pedal. However if you're going for any kind of endurance (longer than a minute) the limiting factor is not muscular but cardiovascular/aerobic, and using less efficient muscles (the ones used for pulling up) will actually hinder your performance since you'll need to be supplying…

Your goal in endurance conditions is to maximize the aerobic pathway, which means maximizing the number of active mitochondria. Recruiting more total mitochondria from more total muscle fiber will give you greater aerobic power output.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#72

Post by jackmott42 »

hinkley wrote: post #37
tech_ken wrote: post #31

ITT: people who read scientific articles by skimming the pictures. The proposal isn't "springs under your feet" it's "springs along your legs that you load while your leg is in the air". The point is that by loading the spring with a leg which is otherwise not doing anything you're able to increase the overall energy output of the body. Their Fig. 2 shows exactly the (theoretical) difference between the naive "jumpin…

One of the reason pro cyclists clip their feet to their pedals is so they can load the “other” leg through the back of the stroke, and across the bottom as well by pulling back on the loaded leg. Come unclipped in a sprint and you’re fucked. Sounds like this is the same thing for running.

This is false, even cyclists who think they pull up and pull back do not, and it is less efficient to do so. However it is a VERY common misconception that you should do this.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#73

Post by jackmott42 »

jph wrote: post #52
criddell wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever used an elliptical chainring?

Yes, elliptical chainrings are great IMHO, especially if you train for elliptical continual exertion. Added 2km to my speed.

No it did not.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#74

Post by dandanua »

Am I correct that they propose to bend your leg (while it's in the air after a ground contact) with an additional force, which is used to conserve energy in an attached spring. Upon a next contact with ground this energy will be released, which gives a better boost than ordinary jumping stilts, since they are loaded only at the moment of contact?

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#75

Post by ang_cire »

ip26 wrote: post #71
justsocrateasin wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for certain metabolic zones but not others. If you're sprinting then yes, you get a higher power output while pulling up on the pedal. However if you're going for any kind of endurance (longer than a minute) the limiting factor is not muscular but cardiovascular/aerobic, and using less efficient muscles (the ones used for pulling up) will actually hinder your performance since you'll need to be supplying…

Your goal in endurance conditions is to maximize the aerobic pathway, which means maximizing the number of active mitochondria. Recruiting more total mitochondria from more total muscle fiber will give you greater aerobic power output.

Ah yes, the Powerhouse of the Cell.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#77

Post by beltsazar »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #25

Naruto run. Don't even need to read the article. "Without external energy (but with external device attached)" is ... a bit disappointing. At what point does it cease to be running and start to be run-assisted catapulting? Or catapult-assisted running? It seems like more than just running .

What you said is probably similar to what they said at the early invention of shoes.

Professional runners today already use an "external device," aka running shoes. If they ran barefoot or even wore mediocre shoes, they would perform worse. As long there's no external energy powering the device, I'd still consider it running.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#78

Post by hombre_fatal »

altairTF wrote: post #70
nvy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I googled "Naruto run" and it's just... Anime characters running with their arms outstretched behind them. That's not what TFA is discussing, you should probably read it.

I found strangely amazing your inability to realize it was a joke the moment you googled "Naruto run"

The problem is that confidently wrong comments are posted to social media like HN and Reddit so frequently that you'd actually be wrong assuming sarcasm most of the time.

So now you're just admonishing someone for trying to engage a comment instead of identifying the epic "anime run funny" humor.

IMO the sanest policy is to just allow people to respond earnestly to posts even if it might be a joke.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#79

Post by louthy »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #69
stouset wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that your muscles have enough strength on the upstroke to contribute meaningfully to cycling is actually a bit of a misunderstanding. Absolutely not, and there are plenty of easy counterexamples. If you've ever raced track, team pursuits start from a dead standstill. You have to expend a ton of force to turn a huge gear, and the contribution of the lifting leg is crucial to getting up to speed. Of course i…

Those are not necessarily examples of lifting . Those could as well be explained by the contribution of not pressing on the opposite pedal (to keep the foot from sliding). And not pressing doesn't shine any light on the force of lifting.

> to keep the foot from sliding

The foot doesn’t slide with clipless peddles. The foot is locked in position. And you can absolutely use lifting and pushing combined - I have done this many times on long sportives (~100 miles); it can give respite to the ‘pushing’ muscles

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#80

Post by jeffbee »

stouset wrote: post #63
rottencupcakes wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that your muscles have enough strength on the upstroke to contribute meaningfully to cycling is actually a bit of a misunderstanding. Your leg muscles for lifting are much much much weaker than your leg muscles for pushing - they're designed to only lift up the weight of your leg and not much more. The main advantage of the clips is to keep your leg in contact with the pedal throughout the cycle and make sur…

> The idea that your muscles have enough strength on the upstroke to contribute meaningfully to cycling is actually a bit of a misunderstanding. Absolutely not, and there are plenty of easy counterexamples. If you've ever raced track, team pursuits start from a dead standstill. You have to expend a ton of force to turn a huge gear, and the contribution of the lifting leg is crucial to getting up to speed. Of course i…

We have a large amount of power meter data demonstrating that elite and pro cyclists do not, in fact, exert much force on the rising stroke when in the saddle. They maintain a net downward force on the pedal most of the time. The benefit of clipless pedals is repeatable positioning and the ability to start the downstroke right at top dead center, without slipping off the pedal. The benefit is not from powering the backstroke.
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