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How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

science.org

41–50 of 206 posts

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#41

Naruto run. Don't even need to read the article. "Without external energy (but with external device attached)" is ... a bit disappointing. At what point does it cease to be running and start to be run-assisted catapulting? Or catapult-assisted running? It seems like more than just running .

I googled "Naruto run" and it's just... Anime characters running with their arms outstretched behind them.

That's not what TFA is discussing, you should probably read it.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#42

Naruto run. Don't even need to read the article. "Without external energy (but with external device attached)" is ... a bit disappointing. At what point does it cease to be running and start to be run-assisted catapulting? Or catapult-assisted running? It seems like more than just running .

With respect to the way this article presents efficiency, I would actually expect Naruto running to be slightly more energy efficient than regular running -- the further forward that one can lean while running, the more that gravity will contribute to forward momentum.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#45
post #40

ITT: people who read scientific articles by skimming the pictures. The proposal isn't "springs under your feet" it's "springs along your legs that you load while your leg is in the air". The point is that by loading the spring with a leg which is otherwise not doing anything you're able to increase the overall energy output of the body. Their Fig. 2 shows exactly the (theoretical) difference between the naive "jumpin…

It is a bit sad that the article doesn't explain what the motion would feel like similar to. Would it be like walking stairs?

I don't think they have a functional prototype, so probably difficult to predict a qualitative comparison to other types of motion. Honestly my guess is that it's not directly comparable to anything else really, because you typically don't have to output energy during the "off-phase" of walking. Maybe like having a rubber band around the bottom of your foot which you're also holding in your hand?

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#46
post #37

ITT: people who read scientific articles by skimming the pictures. The proposal isn't "springs under your feet" it's "springs along your legs that you load while your leg is in the air". The point is that by loading the spring with a leg which is otherwise not doing anything you're able to increase the overall energy output of the body. Their Fig. 2 shows exactly the (theoretical) difference between the naive "jumpin…

One of the reason pro cyclists clip their feet to their pedals is so they can load the “other” leg through the back of the stroke, and across the bottom as well by pulling back on the loaded leg. Come unclipped in a sprint and you’re fucked. Sounds like this is the same thing for running.

Have you ever used an elliptical chainring?

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#47

ITT: people who read scientific articles by skimming the pictures. The proposal isn't "springs under your feet" it's "springs along your legs that you load while your leg is in the air". The point is that by loading the spring with a leg which is otherwise not doing anything you're able to increase the overall energy output of the body. Their Fig. 2 shows exactly the (theoretical) difference between the naive "jumpin…

The next question, following this framework, is that in order for a suspended leg to load a spring, it will be necessary to apply a force against some other part of the body -- so where does it go? On a bicycle this is the other foot, which is made possible by the pedals. But with a spring affixed to the leg, the most likely result is a force against the dorsal surface of the thigh -- not exactly a pleasant idea (try pushing two fingers into the back of your leg if you're curious). So then you are inventing something of an exoskeleton to manage this.

Cycling is extremely efficient -- around 80% of the energy expended by the body is converted to forward motion, even in the simplest configuration, and this can be enhanced further under some circumstances.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#48
post #37

ITT: people who read scientific articles by skimming the pictures. The proposal isn't "springs under your feet" it's "springs along your legs that you load while your leg is in the air". The point is that by loading the spring with a leg which is otherwise not doing anything you're able to increase the overall energy output of the body. Their Fig. 2 shows exactly the (theoretical) difference between the naive "jumpin…

One of the reason pro cyclists clip their feet to their pedals is so they can load the “other” leg through the back of the stroke, and across the bottom as well by pulling back on the loaded leg. Come unclipped in a sprint and you’re fucked. Sounds like this is the same thing for running.

The idea that your muscles have enough strength on the upstroke to contribute meaningfully to cycling is actually a bit of a misunderstanding. Your leg muscles for lifting are much much much weaker than your leg muscles for pushing - they're designed to only lift up the weight of your leg and not much more.

The main advantage of the clips is to keep your leg in contact with the pedal throughout the cycle and make sure the ball of your foot is optimally placed on the pedal. With a traditional pedal you have to keep some downward force on the pedal to create friction to avoid slipping off, so even when that leg is rising up, you can't completely unload the pedal. With clips you can completely unload the pedal.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#49
post #27

Isn't this why Oscar Pistorius was considered to have an unfair advantage by many?

The article says that the Paralympic running top speed is below the non-paralympic top speed.

Which doesn't mean that blade-runner type people don't have an advantage.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#50
post #40

ITT: people who read scientific articles by skimming the pictures. The proposal isn't "springs under your feet" it's "springs along your legs that you load while your leg is in the air". The point is that by loading the spring with a leg which is otherwise not doing anything you're able to increase the overall energy output of the body. Their Fig. 2 shows exactly the (theoretical) difference between the naive "jumpin…

It is a bit sad that the article doesn't explain what the motion would feel like similar to. Would it be like walking stairs?

In the "clipped to cycling pedals" example, the description I was recommended to aim for was "rolling a log in a circle" as opposed to pushing/pulling.

It makes a big difference to be able to have both legs "inputting" energy into the system at the same time. I would say "non-linear response" but that's probably inaccurate... but maybe not? Basically once you've overcome rolling resistance to _start_ going up a hill, being able to continue it with "both legs" instead of one feels like you're not overcoming the "zero-to-one" hurdle as much and instead staying in the "one-to-two" zone. Like you're not "starting over" every downstroke, but instead transitioning your power from one leg to the other.

Given a pretty basic commuter bike that I'd upgraded over time, it felt like moving from ~35 to ~20 tires (basic to "road bike") felt like "gaining a gear" (what used to need 1st gear, I could now do in 2nd), and same with clips, also "gaining a gear" (cumulative: now I could be in 3rd instead of being in 1st).

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