How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#11

Post by ben_w » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 7:29 PM UTC

bongwater_OS wrote: post #9

Who could have guessed - attaching springs to your feet makes you run faster. This is the kind of genius scientific insight that's going to ensure the long term survival of the human race.

Not only is that not entirely obvious at first glance, it sounds like the kind of paper-thin plot device used in a Loony Tunes cartoon.

That it actually works is moderately surprising.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#12

Post by fwip » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #4

Inline skates on flat ground are technically "no external energy". And they can race a marathon in under an hour, so that's 26+ mph (42 kph)

Presumably there are areas/applications where "running" is important - otherwise we can just use a bicycle.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#13

Post by WalterBright » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

zellyn wrote: post #10

bongwater_OS wrote: post #9

Who could have guessed - attaching springs to your feet makes you run faster. This is the kind of genius scientific insight that's going to ensure the long term survival of the human race.

Would you have guessed that attaching springs to your feet would make you run faster? I certainly would not have guessed that.

Didn't Wile E Coyote try that out?

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#14

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 7:32 PM UTC

bongwater_OS wrote: post #9

Who could have guessed - attaching springs to your feet makes you run faster. This is the kind of genius scientific insight that's going to ensure the long term survival of the human race.

[deleted]

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#15

Post by renewiltord » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 7:33 PM UTC

I considered using jumping stilts to run to work rather than skating or cycling. However, the skill level required to master them sufficiently to run required more training than I was willing to put in.

I eventually ended up buying some shift.io moonwalkers, which do have quite a speed-up effect. The problem is that they're quite heavy and the walking motion required to use them effectively ended up requiring my anterior tibialis muscle to have more endurance than it does currently. Additionally, at higher speeds they're dependent on your foot stepping direction, which I have slightly outwards rather than in-line forwards, which causes a slightly skating motion when walking.

The quest continues on.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#16

Post by tech_ken » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 7:34 PM UTC

bongwater_OS wrote: post #9

Who could have guessed - attaching springs to your feet makes you run faster. This is the kind of genius scientific insight that's going to ensure the long term survival of the human race.

I mean yeah it's not exactly a novel observation, but there is some subtlety in /how/ you attach springs to your legs which seems to be the primary contribution of the paper. The two naive options - referred to as "in series and in parallel" - don't see the same results as their proposal (which they discuss at some length in the intro). Their proposal is more about making the "springs on your legs" idea as effective as possible by using a hip attachment to adjust the loading/unloading cycle. By loading the spring with your leg while it's in the air you can improve the overall energy throughput of your gait. Other "springs on your feet" concepts (mentioned throughout the comments section) use a loading/unloading cycle that's 180 degrees out of phase with this (leg on the ground is doing the loading).

Snark is kind of the enemy of critical thought

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#17

Post by lr4444lr » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 7:37 PM UTC

Isn't this why Oscar Pistorius was considered to have an unfair advantage by many?

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#18

Post by DropPanda » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 7:38 PM UTC

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #8

Haven’t similar devices been around for ages https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_stilts

No, the article specifically talks about a device where the legs perform work continuously, as in cycling. The device you linked to only lets the legs work during ground contact.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#19

Post by tech_ken » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 7:40 PM UTC

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #8

Haven’t similar devices been around for ages https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_stilts

No, the difference is when/how you load the springs. This proposal seems to be that you load the spring with your leg in the air before it makes contact with the ground (achieved by attaching the top of the spring up the leg), then land the loaded spring and unload. Their argument is that this allows for higher overall energy output from the human body (akin to cycling). In a jumping stilt you're loading the spring when you put your foot on the ground and unloading immediately, so the energy output only really occurs during that period of foot contact, which presumably lowers overall output.

Re: How to run 50% faster without external energy (2020)

#20

Post by tiffanyh » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 7:40 PM UTC

Nike Vaporfly.

I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned that 2 recording breaking marathon runs were by athletes wearing the Nike Vaporfly shoe.

The shoe was ultimately banned due to the giving too much "bounce" (free energy) to the runners.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-athletics-shoe/nike-proto...