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Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

livescience.com

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Re: Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

#11

Post by yieldcrv »

I gather that global orca populations have a variety of spoken treaties they uphold, so only they pass this information on to each right now

While the humans don’t know them anymore, except in a couple small hunting populations

Following this theory, I found a similar treaty as the “law” mentioned in this article, amongst some of the Salish people in the Pacific Northwest, a lot of the indigenous groups with their own national identities in North America don’t have organized written records and especially not on the internet to reach the broader collective conscious and I think people assume otherwise.

if this phenomenon in the article was reportedly going on for a millennium in that one region of the world, I could see there being cross-drift to other regions

this is supporting my idea that the orcas still communicate it, and act that way towards us because of it, as opposed to any innate symbiotic relationship or general disinterest in violence towards humans

Re: Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

#12

Post by nend »

Paianni wrote: post #10
moomoo11 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orcas that hunted alongside orcs might be extinct. :( Wish humans were better stewards of earth. As a human it’s frustrating to watch others engage in destroying the planet instead of taking even simple steps to at least try.

We can be effective stewards but the civilised world has dug a grave we don't know how to escape from.

I can't remember the name of the book I read this from so grain of salt/do your own research, but it was on the topic of why farming replaced hunting/gathering/migratory patterns.

One of the reasons mentioned was because despite hunting/gathering generally providing better nutrition (due to the variability in food), farming produced more calories. So the decision became (these number are made up) "we can farm and provide high quantities of poor nutrition to keep all of us alive", vs "we can hunt/gather to keep 75% of in great health, while 25% of the group dies."

Basically once a certain population threshold is reached the group has to enter a cycle of farming -> allows more babies to survive -> farm more. Your comment and this anecdote reminds of the capitalism cycle of consume more -> produce more value -> consume more.

If true, we've been unable to escape this cycle for thousands of years.

Re: Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

#13

Post by marcosdumay »

yieldcrv wrote: post #11

I gather that global orca populations have a variety of spoken treaties they uphold, so only they pass this information on to each right now While the humans don’t know them anymore, except in a couple small hunting populations Following this theory, I found a similar treaty as the “law” mentioned in this article, amongst some of the Salish people in the Pacific Northwest, a lot of the indigenous groups with their ow…

Well, they seem to innately be disgusted by we as food. They also seem to have some "respect" for we as hunters or something like that (but then, this one is easy to acquire). And differently from almost every other predator on Earth, that "respect" doesn't innately lead to fear.

Since both of those are reciprocal, it's as much an innate relation as you can get with thinking social animals.

Re: Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

#14

Post by JumpCrisscross »

nend wrote: post #12
Paianni wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can be effective stewards but the civilised world has dug a grave we don't know how to escape from.

I can't remember the name of the book I read this from so grain of salt/do your own research, but it was on the topic of why farming replaced hunting/gathering/migratory patterns. One of the reasons mentioned was because despite hunting/gathering generally providing better nutrition (due to the variability in food), farming produced more calories. So the decision became (these number are made up) "we can farm and pro…

> we've been unable to escape this cycle for thousands of years

Modern agriculture produces varied, nutritious and plentiful foodstuffs. It also produces nonsense filler. But it’s simply not correct to claim that we’re stuck in the tradeoff our ancestors made when they settled down to farm.

Re: Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

#15

Post by civilitty »

marcosdumay wrote: post #13
yieldcrv wrote: post #11

I gather that global orca populations have a variety of spoken treaties they uphold, so only they pass this information on to each right now While the humans don’t know them anymore, except in a couple small hunting populations Following this theory, I found a similar treaty as the “law” mentioned in this article, amongst some of the Salish people in the Pacific Northwest, a lot of the indigenous groups with their ow…

Well, they seem to innately be disgusted by we as food. They also seem to have some "respect" for we as hunters or something like that (but then, this one is easy to acquire). And differently from almost every other predator on Earth, that "respect" doesn't innately lead to fear. Since both of those are reciprocal, it's as much an innate relation as you can get with thinking social animals.

Their usual source of food like seals taste better because they have much more fat to keep them insulated and mariners are generally leaner people. Once they get a taste of the average sedentary American and their corn fed blubber, I’m sure they’ll acquire a taste for manflesh.

Re: Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

#16

Post by 3seashells »

datameta wrote: post #4
acestus5 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They went the way of the Dodo. Wildlife that is not afraid of seamen get killed for food.

You're suggesting we killed them off? Source?

Can we stop this childish games, please? Wherever humanity appears large mammals and birds dissappeared, either directly or indirectly. In this case by predation ofthe food source. And this whole "what extinction, by what humans" is the "what Armenians" of developmental history of our species. The whole rhetoric device is just so boring, the dialog tree looped. It's just a sound of denial now, not really worth engaging, a noise disclosing the bunkered in mental state of the producer. It never added much to the conversation to begin with but now it's just..

https://www.science.org/doi/epdf/10.1126/sciadv.abb2313

Re: Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

#17

Post by pirocks »

3seashells wrote: post #16
datameta wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting we killed them off? Source?

Can we stop this childish games, please? Wherever humanity appears large mammals and birds dissappeared, either directly or indirectly. In this case by predation ofthe food source. And this whole "what extinction, by what humans" is the "what Armenians" of developmental history of our species. The whole rhetoric device is just so boring, the dialog tree looped. It's just a sound of denial now, not really worth engagi…

Sure but the gp was asking if we killed them off directly as opposed to killing off there food source.

Re: Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

#18

Post by wolverine876 »

Paianni wrote: post #10
moomoo11 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orcas that hunted alongside orcs might be extinct. :( Wish humans were better stewards of earth. As a human it’s frustrating to watch others engage in destroying the planet instead of taking even simple steps to at least try.

We can be effective stewards but the civilised world has dug a grave we don't know how to escape from.

> the civilised world has dug a grave we don't know how to escape from

We do, but politics is a part of reality - in every situation - and needs to be dealt with. Saying 'we'd solve the problem but for the politics' is like a ship captain saying 'I'd sail but for all that water'. The worst tactic for dealing with politics is to say it's somehow static and hopeless, though political opponents love it.

Re: Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

#19

Post by cgriswald »

3seashells wrote: post #16
datameta wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting we killed them off? Source?

Can we stop this childish games, please? Wherever humanity appears large mammals and birds dissappeared, either directly or indirectly. In this case by predation ofthe food source. And this whole "what extinction, by what humans" is the "what Armenians" of developmental history of our species. The whole rhetoric device is just so boring, the dialog tree looped. It's just a sound of denial now, not really worth engagi…

We, collectively, are probably best served when asking questions doesn't result in an unrelated harangue.

In this case, the poster is asking about the claim that the orcas were hunted to be consumed by humans. You didn't provide any evidence that this is the case---and in fact suggested a reasonable alternative---so I suspect you also either question or deny that claim as well.

I think you've fallen into a trap. You've allowed the very people you are trying to rail against here to convince you that anyone asking questions is an enemy of yours and worthy of your derision.

Re: Orcas that hunted alongside humans might be extinct

#20

Post by nend »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14
nend wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember the name of the book I read this from so grain of salt/do your own research, but it was on the topic of why farming replaced hunting/gathering/migratory patterns. One of the reasons mentioned was because despite hunting/gathering generally providing better nutrition (due to the variability in food), farming produced more calories. So the decision became (these number are made up) "we can farm and pro…

> we've been unable to escape this cycle for thousands of years Modern agriculture produces varied, nutritious and plentiful foodstuffs. It also produces nonsense filler. But it’s simply not correct to claim that we’re stuck in the tradeoff our ancestors made when they settled down to farm.

>But it’s simply not correct to claim that we’re stuck in the tradeoff our ancestors made when they settled down to farm.

I mean we are because if we go back to hunting/gathering billions of people would die.

The point is that that at the time, farming produced worse nutrition, but despite that we couldn't go back once we started. There's a whole lot of other variables today that obviously prevent us from going back to hunting/gathering.

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