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Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

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Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#341

Post by kthejoker2 »

nec4b wrote: post #191
kthejoker2 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rights do women have in those country? Can they vote? Drive? Get abortion? Get birth control? Do they have marital rape laws? Domestic abuse laws? Do they have no fault divorce laws? How do they handle common law property? Custody laws? Parental rights? What education do they provide to young women? What institutions do they have supporting female financial independence? What role does organized religion and spe…

So in short I guess you agree not everything stems from wealth inequality.

Oh absolutely (I didn't even read the whole thread till this comment!) Are we taking a vote? :)

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#342

Post by corethree »

boppo1 wrote: post #331
withinboredom wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a metric shit ton of assumptions in here that I’m not sure are true. The truth of the matter is that women tend to work together and men… not so much. Once you see the whole picture, I can see how you can see the world through such a perverse lens. Sadly, I’m about to hop off the train, but if someone replies that they are interested, I’ll provide a writup that will surprise you.

> writeup please; I'm always keen on counterpoints to /r9k/ ideology

Hold on. This isn't ideology. These are just points and I have nothing against men. It's just facts. Just because I say these things and just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I hate men.

It's unfortunate that these things are happening to men but that's just reality.

Please be logical and rational rather than accusatory.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#343

Post by rayiner »

16mb wrote: post #326
ekanes wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a small community of actual friends. Friendship matters re longevity. It's worth working towards.

I assume it’s a bit more likely to do with the lack of junk foods and increased physical activity.

Yeah but everyone knows you shouldn’t eat junk food and should exercise more. And last I checked Utah is subject to the same consumer advertising, fast food chains, and processed food brands as everywhere else.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#344

Post by rayiner »

lapcat wrote: post #332
rayiner wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans have always had an individualist streak, fueled by Protestant Christianity, the cultural influence of Appalachia, and cultural diversity. The communitarian parts of Christianity held that somewhat in check. But as even that falls away, america has become hyper-individualized and morality has become almost completely personalized.

> the cultural influence of Appalachia That's an incredible stretch. There are a number of other factors worth mentioning: - The philosophy of John Locke, who greatly influenced the founders - The US is a very new country, compared to those in Europe and Asia. The only preexisting culture was the Native Americans, and you (should) know what happened to them... - The US is a nation of immigrants who left (sometimes vo…

> That's an incredible stretch.

The culture of Appalachia—specifically, the Scots-Irish—has been tremendously influential in America: https://reason.com/2005/07/01/the-fighting-scots-irish-2. It is deeply wrapped up in frontier culture, interestingly because Scots-Irish were encouraged to migrate to that land to serve as a buffer against the Indians.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#345

Post by black_13 »

ergl wrote: post #297

As someone from Europe, I can't understand the inability of mainstream US culture and media to disentangle marriage from long term stable relationships. Take this paragraph from the article: > More women are deciding to have children and also remain single. Almost half of all babies born in the U.S. were born to unmarried women in 2019, a dramatic increase since 1960, when only 5% of births were to unmarried mothers.…

[dead]

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#346

Post by timeagain »

ecshafer wrote: post #252
rayiner wrote: post #231

We should do more social studies research into US subcultures that have significantly different marriage norms than the mainstream US. Mormons and Asians both have strong taboos against divorce, and also have strong rates of upward mobility (i.e. much higher odds of kids from low income households ending up as high earning adults). There is some research supporting the link, but not nearly enough: https://www.brookin…

This is one of the reasons that I think Kant's ideas on Deontology (also Confucian philosophy around relationships) is the correct one for a functioning society. There is a framework of "Right" and "Wrong" that exists outside of "Good" and "Bad". Doing what is beneficial for society, and what is expected of society is right, regardless of the Good nature of it. If society expects you to fight in a war, and you kill s…

Saying killing in war is “right” is putting a lot of words in this dead German guys mouth. Kant thought something was “right” if everyone doing it would not lead to contradiction. Killing is a common example of what is wrong, since if everyone killed no one would remain.

In the 70s I would have been imprisoned for being gay, was that “right” because society deems it so?

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#347

Post by withinboredom »

corethree wrote: post #301
withinboredom wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a metric shit ton of assumptions in here that I’m not sure are true. The truth of the matter is that women tend to work together and men… not so much. Once you see the whole picture, I can see how you can see the world through such a perverse lens. Sadly, I’m about to hop off the train, but if someone replies that they are interested, I’ll provide a writup that will surprise you.

None of what I said is assumed. It's well defined theories of human behavior from both evolutionary psychology and anthropology. I am simply regurgitating academic facts. This is markedly different from "assumptions."

There is nothing "academic" about what you posted. If it was, there would be footnotes and sources where you mentioned things... that being said...

Assumptions.

You assume that most of human history that women were not equal. This is actually, quite false[1]. Only in recent western history were they unequal. This by no means dismisses the fact that women were, in fact, oppressed for several dozen of the last generations and for most of the western world. However, this is NOT long enough to create any kind of genetic pressure.

> In anthropology there's a saying that monogamy benefits men while polygamy benefits women...

I googled this "saying" and it was only your post that came up. Did you just make this up? lol

> If a woman sleeps with another man then the partner may end up raising and spending resources on another mans child.

Sure, if you have the emotional maturity of a 16 year old, this makes a lot of sense.

> Thus all men have intense instincts to basically end an entire relationship once a woman has a single sexual affair.

No, these are not "instincts", they are a loss of trust in a partner and no relationship can survive if there isn't trust. Open relationships exist, polygamy is a thing. I can assure you.

> where women are totally ok with their husbands fucking prostitutes

I think this just proves my point... trust is essential. Sex is just sex unless you attach something special to it.

> Basically we live in an era of changing social norms and it's accelerating natural selection.

I would absolutely love to see a citation for how natural selection is "accelerating" because, if anything, it is the opposite. We're having fewer children in most developed countries, not more.[2]

:sigh:

Let me tell you what is actually going on now. Women tend to work together, more so than men[3]. What this means, is that there are entire communities where they talk about who they go on dates with. I'm not even making this up.[4] This means if you are a creep, no one will date you because you are a creep. Do something stupid, every woman will know about it on your next date. So, no, there isn't some mysterious "beta" or "alpha" bullshit, it's just that women are smart enough to work together to make sure they don't date the wrong person.

Your entire comment is built on a pile of assumptions and leaps of logic that are barely coherent, with no references to back them up.

[1]: https://phys.org/news/2023-10-prehistoric-gender-roles-women...

[2]: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46118103

[3]: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797620956632

[4]: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/are-we-dating-the-s...

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#348

Post by withinboredom »

boppo1 wrote: post #331
withinboredom wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a metric shit ton of assumptions in here that I’m not sure are true. The truth of the matter is that women tend to work together and men… not so much. Once you see the whole picture, I can see how you can see the world through such a perverse lens. Sadly, I’m about to hop off the train, but if someone replies that they are interested, I’ll provide a writup that will surprise you.

> writeup please; I'm always keen on counterpoints to /r9k/ ideology

Replied here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37987210

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#349

Post by slibhb »

ecshafer wrote: post #252
rayiner wrote: post #231

We should do more social studies research into US subcultures that have significantly different marriage norms than the mainstream US. Mormons and Asians both have strong taboos against divorce, and also have strong rates of upward mobility (i.e. much higher odds of kids from low income households ending up as high earning adults). There is some research supporting the link, but not nearly enough: https://www.brookin…

This is one of the reasons that I think Kant's ideas on Deontology (also Confucian philosophy around relationships) is the correct one for a functioning society. There is a framework of "Right" and "Wrong" that exists outside of "Good" and "Bad". Doing what is beneficial for society, and what is expected of society is right, regardless of the Good nature of it. If society expects you to fight in a war, and you kill s…

> This is one of the reasons that I think Kant's ideas on Deontology (also Confucian philosophy around relationships) is the correct one for a functioning society. There is a framework of "Right" and "Wrong" that exists outside of "Good" and "Bad". Doing what is beneficial for society, and what is expected of society is right, regardless of the Good nature of it. If society expects you to fight in a war, and you kill someone, that is "Right" regardless of the fact that killing is "bad".

This is a tangent but I've never heard anyone summarize Kant this way.

For Kant, "right" is a subset of "good". So there is no right action that is not good. In other words, per Kant, it's absolutely not acceptable for you to do something bad because it's "necessary" according to whatever metric.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#350

Post by rayiner »

ergl wrote: post #297

As someone from Europe, I can't understand the inability of mainstream US culture and media to disentangle marriage from long term stable relationships. Take this paragraph from the article: > More women are deciding to have children and also remain single. Almost half of all babies born in the U.S. were born to unmarried women in 2019, a dramatic increase since 1960, when only 5% of births were to unmarried mothers.…

> As someone from Europe, I can't understand the inability of mainstream US culture and media to disentangle marriage from long term stable relationships.

In the US, the category of non-marriage stable long term relationships is very small. The veneer of christian morality still exists in America, even if the substance has rotted away. So anyone who is in a stable long term relationship tends to just go ahead and paper things up. Even people in unstable relationships tend to just get married and have three or four divorces.

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