The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#221

Post by ethbr1 » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 12:27 PM UTC

ThrowAway1922A wrote: post #184

solatic wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. A human mind is a terrible thing to waste. Plenty of people don't look for more fulfilling work because what they already have is "good enough" and it brings home a paycheck that supports the people who depend on them. Oftentimes, people need a push, and doing so can be an act of compassion. Laying people off is not some death sentence; it's a disruptive event that well-adjusted people will recover from. That's…

> it's a disruptive event that well-adjusted people will recover from. Some of us are not well adjusted. Some of us are barely hanging on, barely able to manage the demands of our lives and our society. Being laid off at this point for me would be worse than disruptive it would be an outright disaster.

Let's create a hypothetical McDonald's worker, imbued at birth with extraordinary intelligence and capability.

They have a family and are the primary means of support.

They're laid off. Parent post's "act of compassion"

What happens?

In the US, they have unemployment benefits. They have SNAP.

That's probably it as far as immediate. They hypothetically have access to Section 8 housing, but that's contingent on finding availability (current wait-lists are long and conditions of properties variable).

There are some academic / training programs (merit and need-based), but I believe those are all state-administered?

IOW, in the US, not great. I don't have high confidence that housing and initial retraining would be financially/practically attainable to allow them to take advantage of their abilities.

Honestly, in the US, most reliable option for that person would be to join the military.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#222

Post by ThrowAway1922A » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 1:16 PM UTC

nonrandomstring wrote: post #112

userbinator wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the fuck are we doing as a society, that this lady, with a machine that could compute the above in a fraction of a second, has to spend a decent chunk of her work time doing this? To put it bluntly: do you want her to be unemployed instead?

> do you want her to be unemployed instead? Yes. Compassion and reason both repel me, as a humanist and computer scientist, from the thought of another human being pointlessly wasting her life for the mere "necessity" of money to live because broken software has become an excuse for this. It is an inhuman spectacle, and the notion of "employment" here is so weak as to have no force in the argument. An unemployed pers…

It's hard to believe this is an actual opinion a human holds and it wreaks of someone who has never gone through particularly hard times.

Redefine their life? Good luck doing that when you suddenly don't have an income because you were automated out of employment. People who are able to recover from these events and reinvent themselves are the exception.

Any job is better than no job and it's not your place to judge the value of someone's life. If said person is making an income, can tolerate their job, and enjoys their time outside of work that's all anyone can really ask for.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#223

Post by JohnFen » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 1:38 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #206

JohnFen wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree -- this is exactly why when my current smartphone dies, I'm going to be switching to the dumbest phone I can find and start carrying a real pocket computer along with it.

> and start carrying a real pocket computer along with it So why wouldn't you buy Librem 5 or Pinephone, which are pocket computers running GNU/Linux which have a phone functionality?

Because I don't want the computer to have phone functionality. Also, I can get a better computer for the money if it isn't married to a phone.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#224

Post by A7C3D5 » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 1:40 PM UTC

omscs99 wrote: post #56

ethbr1 wrote: post #3

I understand this is ACM, but I would say the decline has strictly been a failure of software . Specifically, corporate IT's failure to deliver general purpose development tools usable by anyone in a company to make computers do work for them (aka programming). There's still a ton of general value that could be delivered by general purpose processors/computers. But instead, most non-programmers live in a Kafkaesque r…

Hypothetically, if she figured out how to automate it on her own, would she get any kind of reward for it? If not, why should she automate it? Another example, if there’s some repetitive task that you automate at a software dev job, would you get rewarded for figuring out how to automate it? The answer is obviously dependent on culture, at my current gig you just get brushed off Seems to me like you’re assuming that…

I synthesize proteins to sell on an industrial scale. When I started working here a few years ago I noticed much of the programming/prep work could be easily automated, so I did. In many cases I could at least double productivity.

None of these improvements ever resulted in getting a raise, or a faster promotion, or getting to go home earlier. All it earned me was extra time to do other people's work, or to stare at the floor and look like a lazy unproductive employee.

I never had any real expectations otherwise; I did it out of boredom. But still I feel stupid for having done it at all.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#225

Post by JohnFen » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 1:40 PM UTC

ethbr1 wrote: post #219

JohnFen wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't think this is true at all. While there will always be a percentage of people who would prefer that, my observations are that most people don't. They tend to have interests that drive them to put time and effort into doing things, instead.

If I ever luck into wealth, I have a mad scientist social experiment I want to run. Advertise a job, with midling-but-not-exceptional pay, and try the following with a few hundred people. - They report at exactly 9:00 am - They bring nothing with them - They enter a featureless room - They sit at a featureless desk - They sit there for 8 hours - They have 30 minutes for lunch - They have access to a featureless bathr…

I wouldn't even consider such a job. For me, the worst possible job is one where I have nothing to do. I've had those, and they are a nightmare. I'd much rather be seriously overworked!

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#226

Post by JohnFen » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 1:46 PM UTC

ethbr1 wrote: post #216

JohnFen wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a janitor for a long time in my younger years, and I actually did find it enjoyable and fulfilling. Just sayin'.

What did you enjoy about it? Curious!

I enjoyed that what I did made a real impact on people, I enjoyed the sense of satisfaction from making a space nice again, and I enjoyed that it wasn't intellectually demanding, which gave me plenty of time every workday to think about hard programming problems.

There's a real sense of accomplishment in it, and it's nice that people can immediately see and enjoy the results of your hard work. There's also something about doing manual labor that is satisfying.

And I enjoyed being "invisible" around people who used the spaces I cleaned. You usually don't exist, so people tend to continue to speak to each other as if nobody else is listening. I learned a lot about people that way.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#227

Post by fsflover » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 2:13 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #223

fsflover wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and start carrying a real pocket computer along with it So why wouldn't you buy Librem 5 or Pinephone, which are pocket computers running GNU/Linux which have a phone functionality?

Because I don't want the computer to have phone functionality. Also, I can get a better computer for the money if it isn't married to a phone.

Would you mind linking to a good pocket computer for buying?

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#228

Post by another2another » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 2:22 PM UTC

ethbr1 wrote: post #219

JohnFen wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't think this is true at all. While there will always be a percentage of people who would prefer that, my observations are that most people don't. They tend to have interests that drive them to put time and effort into doing things, instead.

If I ever luck into wealth, I have a mad scientist social experiment I want to run. Advertise a job, with midling-but-not-exceptional pay, and try the following with a few hundred people. - They report at exactly 9:00 am - They bring nothing with them - They enter a featureless room - They sit at a featureless desk - They sit there for 8 hours - They have 30 minutes for lunch - They have access to a featureless bathr…

After a week or two, they'd probably call Sherlock Holmes.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#229

Post by bee_rider » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 2:43 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #199

bee_rider wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literacy rates in the US are pretty high I think, compared to where we were before k-12 schooling became standard. And most people can do basic arithmetic, right? The goal, I think, to start should be to get to the point where an office of 10 or so people has at least one or two who can string together basic scripts.

> Literacy rates in the US are pretty high I think, compared to where we were before k-12 schooling became standard. 'Post hoc ergo propter hoc.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc By and large, kids from well-off parents were always more literate, and they still are. And the US is a lot richer now than it used to be.

If schools aren’t even teaching basic things like arithmetic and literacy, then what are they? Just a place to park kids while their parents work? In that case, might as well also do some programming classes, right? If the other option is learning nothing.

I mean, if you want to totally revamp the education system, I’m here for it, but I guess that seems like a bigger project to me.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#230

Post by JohnFen » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 3:38 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #227

JohnFen wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I don't want the computer to have phone functionality. Also, I can get a better computer for the money if it isn't married to a phone.

Would you mind linking to a good pocket computer for buying?

I would if I could. There are a number of models available, but I have no real insight as to which are the best. I'm building my own for this endeavor.