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Global Encryption Day: Encryption's Critical Role in Safeguarding Human Rights

blog.torproject.org

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Re: Global Encryption Day: Encryption's Critical Role in Safeguarding Human Rights

#41

Post by BLKNSLVR »

XorNot wrote: post #24
nonrandomstring wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> E2EE overrides current controls in place There are no controls in place. This line is becoming quite a pattern in UK (Tory) government rhetoric. They forcefully state wishful thinking as if it were a fact. There are no controls because there is no possibility of controls, as a matter of mathematics. But by exploiting ignorance, the tories managed to beast parliament into an intractable "just imagine if..." clause i…

The better answer though is that it's a misdirect: they're pointing at encryption as the bad guy, the one thing which takes place solely in the digital space and is activity-agnostic - nothing which happens with encrypted bits, by itself, can do anything in the real world. "Pedophiles and terrorists" on the other hand, have to do a lot of things in the physical world in order to actually be pedophiles and terrorists.…

This "real world" link is missed (intentionally by politicians) by a majority of people because the Internet has become "the great solution". It scales, we can stay seated at our desks and still (claim to) solve crime.

Electronic communications are merely 'theory' to the physical world's 'reality'. It's like the phrase "no plan survives contact with the enemy".

The Internet only contains the symptoms. If you want to know where there are real problems that need solving in this arena, speak to some teachers - but no, children's services remain under-funded and under-staffed whilst we spend more and more on internet surveillance.

Social problems can not be solved by technology legislation.

Re: Global Encryption Day: Encryption's Critical Role in Safeguarding Human Rights

#43

Post by hanniabu »

Metus wrote: post #5

One of the largest holes in encrypted communication is still the fact that the vast majority of email is still neither digitally signed, nor encrypted. And even if they are, the usual schemes do not encrypt the subject line. I wish there was something like Let's encrypt but for email. Just make it trivial to sign and encrypt your mail. Also, mail clients should give a huge warning for unencrypted and/or unsigned mail…

I'm pretty sure Skiff encrypts everything

Re: Global Encryption Day: Encryption's Critical Role in Safeguarding Human Rights

#44

Post by amilich »

hanniabu wrote: post #43
Metus wrote: post #5

One of the largest holes in encrypted communication is still the fact that the vast majority of email is still neither digitally signed, nor encrypted. And even if they are, the usual schemes do not encrypt the subject line. I wish there was something like Let's encrypt but for email. Just make it trivial to sign and encrypt your mail. Also, mail clients should give a huge warning for unencrypted and/or unsigned mail…

I'm pretty sure Skiff encrypts everything

Hello :)

Skiff cannot access email content, subject, and header info. To/from/cc/bcc fields are not stored end-to-end encrypted, though.

Re: Global Encryption Day: Encryption's Critical Role in Safeguarding Human Rights

#45

Post by tjpnz »

controversiview wrote: post #16

And for hiding the activities of pedophiles and terrorists. Encryption isn't solely beneficial to human rights, it enables considerable harm to be shielded from scrutiny. There has to be a balance with the extent to which applications of encryption are permitted in society.

Without encryption pedophiles have access to your family photos. One innocent photograph of a toddler bathing could become the gratification of a sex criminal.

Re: Global Encryption Day: Encryption's Critical Role in Safeguarding Human Rights

#46

Post by userbinator »

Given encryption's increasingly critical role in taking control away from users, I've become more skeptical of such proclamations in the past few years.

Governments are against encryption, because it takes power away from them.

Yet on the other side, there's Big Tech who will use encryption for things like Secure Boot and continued locking-down of "devices" (they don't even want you to think it's a general-purpose computer) against users, ostensibly for "security". Thus I believe their reasons to oppose the government's opposition to encryption are not truly in the interests of the users, but because it gives them the power instead.

Encryption is classified as a munition, because that's what it fundmentally is; everyone would probably agree that it's better to have a gun yourself, instead of one pointed at you.

I don't know of a simple solution to this problem. I'm just offering a critical alternative viewpoint to the "encryption = good" and "encryption = bad" sides.

Re: Global Encryption Day: Encryption's Critical Role in Safeguarding Human Rights

#47

Post by userbinator »

dividendpayee wrote: post #35
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually the best example for why encryption isn't a human right. Postal mail isn't encrypted, telephone calls aren't encrypted, and the UN hasn't made a declaration about that. Why is that? It's because encryption is a red herring. The theory that encryption is going to stop government surveillance is ridiculous. Even a perfect technology is not going to override national politics. Any government oppressive…

Postal mail isn't encrypted because it's not viable for ordinary citizens to encrypt physical mail. However, tampering with mail, or opening someone else's, is a federal crime with harsh penalties attached. The message is clear: "postal secrecy" is highly valued.

However, tampering with mail, or opening someone else's, is a federal crime with harsh penalties attached.

...and yet the government can still do that if it truly wants to.

Re: Global Encryption Day: Encryption's Critical Role in Safeguarding Human Rights

#48

Post by userbinator »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #37
controversiview wrote: post #16

And for hiding the activities of pedophiles and terrorists. Encryption isn't solely beneficial to human rights, it enables considerable harm to be shielded from scrutiny. There has to be a balance with the extent to which applications of encryption are permitted in society.

Cars, guns, knives, sharp sticks, rocks, language, religion, belief, opinion, cigarettes, sugar, bad parenting, divorce, marriage. Ban 'em all! Humanity's evils pre-date technology, therefore banning technology will not remove them. I'd also go on to say that many of the examples I've listed above have more to do with the creation of both terrorists and pedophiles, by a very wide margin, than encryption. Problems tha…

Ban 'em all!

Sadly, I have already observed that exact opinion strongly advocated for on here for several of the things on that list.

Re: Global Encryption Day: Encryption's Critical Role in Safeguarding Human Rights

#49

Post by barrysteve »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #8
markx2 wrote: post #2

But think of the children!! 'Technology companies currently use encryption positively to keep your bank transactions and online purchases safe and secure. Encryption has many other uses throughout everyday life, but some social media companies such as Meta are proposing to implement or already have implemented E2EE in private messaging spaces. E2EE overrides current controls in place that help to keep children safe a…

> E2EE overrides current controls in place There are no controls in place. This line is becoming quite a pattern in UK (Tory) government rhetoric. They forcefully state wishful thinking as if it were a fact. There are no controls because there is no possibility of controls, as a matter of mathematics. But by exploiting ignorance, the tories managed to beast parliament into an intractable "just imagine if..." clause i…

Nation States are one of Big Tech's best customers.

Nation States love to give legal and regulatory incentives as 'guidelines'.

It's the average joe that loses. The only way out is privacy from both nations and corporations.

If another person knows your technology exists, it will be inexorably wrenched from your hands and controlled by the biggest bully in town. We see it every single day.

Re: Global Encryption Day: Encryption's Critical Role in Safeguarding Human Rights

#50

Post by Moldoteck »

controversiview wrote: post #16

And for hiding the activities of pedophiles and terrorists. Encryption isn't solely beneficial to human rights, it enables considerable harm to be shielded from scrutiny. There has to be a balance with the extent to which applications of encryption are permitted in society.

If communication isn't encrypted, this means pedos have a higher chance to get that data either through mitm or through some more esoteric method if encryption exists but it has a backdoor. If a backdoor exists, it will be used
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