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Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

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Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#251

Post by _lvbh »

curiousfiddler wrote: post #243
rayiner wrote: post #231

We should do more social studies research into US subcultures that have significantly different marriage norms than the mainstream US. Mormons and Asians both have strong taboos against divorce, and also have strong rates of upward mobility (i.e. much higher odds of kids from low income households ending up as high earning adults). There is some research supporting the link, but not nearly enough: https://www.brookin…

Both Mormons and Asians socialize children into “do what you’re obliged to do, not what you want to do.” Wow, that's incredibly reductive. Asia has approx 4.7 billion people!

I’d agree if not for the fact that this is somewhat true in much of Asia: China, India, Korea, Japan, Southeast Asia (Thailand, Malaysia, etc). I’m sure there are exceptions but it’s hard find counter examples

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#252

Post by ecshafer »

rayiner wrote: post #231

We should do more social studies research into US subcultures that have significantly different marriage norms than the mainstream US. Mormons and Asians both have strong taboos against divorce, and also have strong rates of upward mobility (i.e. much higher odds of kids from low income households ending up as high earning adults). There is some research supporting the link, but not nearly enough: https://www.brookin…

This is one of the reasons that I think Kant's ideas on Deontology (also Confucian philosophy around relationships) is the correct one for a functioning society. There is a framework of "Right" and "Wrong" that exists outside of "Good" and "Bad". Doing what is beneficial for society, and what is expected of society is right, regardless of the Good nature of it. If society expects you to fight in a war, and you kill someone, that is "Right" regardless of the fact that killing is "bad".

But to bring this back to the topic on hand. It is right to study and work hard at school, it is right to be disciplined and not disrupt class, it is right to work a job and do well at the job. This is separate from the fact that you are may be a good person (nice, charitable, etc). A teenager who is good, but not working hard is being wrong. A large part of this is putting wants aside to do what is right.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#253

Post by avar »

mvncleaninst wrote: post #207

These types of articles are doing the opposite of what they're trying to do. How exactly is framing marriage in purely economic terms supposed to encourage marriage? How is reducing people down to an income stream, a college diploma, genitalia, etc going to encourage marriage? Take this for example: > not because they reject the concept of marriage, but because they do not see him as a reliable source of economic sec…

Because at the end of the day, marriage is primarily about economics.

You can be in love, be in a stable long term relationship, raise children together etc. without being married.

Being married means entering a trilateral pact between two people, and the state. It can make sense to do so for a lot of reasons, e.g. tax benefits (in particular in the US, as opposed to many other OECD countries).

That people conflate this arrangement with the government with what's going on in their personal lives is just fluff. It's understandable given cultural inertia, but if you really get down to it that's all it is.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#254

Post by Retric »

kirubakaran wrote: post #239
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to be off-topic but widows/ers just hurts my eyes. Why not use a more elegant alternative, widow(er)s? Even the uglier widow(s|ers) would be better.

Or the gender neutral, invariant noun: “widowen” BTW, shouldn’t “widower” be the person who died and the survivor be called “widowee”?

That may seem reasonable but widower is a man whose spouse died. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/widower

“Etymology Middle English widewer, alteration of wedow widow, widower, from Old English wuduwa widower; akin to Old English wuduwe widow”

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#255

Post by huytersd »

_lvbh wrote: post #251
curiousfiddler wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Mormons and Asians socialize children into “do what you’re obliged to do, not what you want to do.” Wow, that's incredibly reductive. Asia has approx 4.7 billion people!

I’d agree if not for the fact that this is somewhat true in much of Asia: China, India, Korea, Japan, Southeast Asia (Thailand, Malaysia, etc). I’m sure there are exceptions but it’s hard find counter examples

The Bhagavat Gita is literally a tome that argues why it’s more important to do your duty/obligation over what you want.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#256

Post by [deleted] »

Retric wrote: post #254
kirubakaran wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the gender neutral, invariant noun: “widowen” BTW, shouldn’t “widower” be the person who died and the survivor be called “widowee”?

That may seem reasonable but widower is a man whose spouse died. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/widower “Etymology Middle English widewer , alteration of wedow widow, widower, from Old English wuduwa widower; akin to Old English wuduwe widow”

[deleted]

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#257

Post by hx8 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #171
ghusto wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mad, no? When I ask people point blank why they're getting married, they just stare at me. Obviously part of that is because I'm being autistically rude in asking such a questions, but I haven't heard any compelling answers either.

Well if you ask such an autistic question (given that I am responding to a adult person and not some small kid who doesn't have a clue about actual life), don't expect much, it clearly signalizes that you are either taking a piss or are so immature there is no point even discussing it. Its a bit like asking why do you like color blue, mature adults don't ask that and for kids you can say anything or nothing, same res…

As an adult that is seen as mature by my peers who happens to not understand marriage your post comes off as lacking empathy and also not doing a lot to explain why someone would choose marriage.

The reasons I extracted for why someone would want to choose marriage.

* "Why not"

* Changes the relationship for the better

* The relationship has longer cancellation procedure.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#258

Post by [deleted] »

Retric wrote: post #254
kirubakaran wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the gender neutral, invariant noun: “widowen” BTW, shouldn’t “widower” be the person who died and the survivor be called “widowee”?

That may seem reasonable but widower is a man whose spouse died. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/widower “Etymology Middle English widewer , alteration of wedow widow, widower, from Old English wuduwa widower; akin to Old English wuduwe widow”

[deleted]

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#259

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #231

We should do more social studies research into US subcultures that have significantly different marriage norms than the mainstream US. Mormons and Asians both have strong taboos against divorce, and also have strong rates of upward mobility (i.e. much higher odds of kids from low income households ending up as high earning adults). There is some research supporting the link, but not nearly enough: https://www.brookin…

[deleted]

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#260

Post by TerrifiedMouse »

ecshafer wrote: post #252
rayiner wrote: post #231

We should do more social studies research into US subcultures that have significantly different marriage norms than the mainstream US. Mormons and Asians both have strong taboos against divorce, and also have strong rates of upward mobility (i.e. much higher odds of kids from low income households ending up as high earning adults). There is some research supporting the link, but not nearly enough: https://www.brookin…

This is one of the reasons that I think Kant's ideas on Deontology (also Confucian philosophy around relationships) is the correct one for a functioning society. There is a framework of "Right" and "Wrong" that exists outside of "Good" and "Bad". Doing what is beneficial for society, and what is expected of society is right, regardless of the Good nature of it. If society expects you to fight in a war, and you kill s…

It’s pretty much collectivism vs individualism.

The West has mostly leaned towards individualism (aka “it's a free country”) while the East Asia under the influence of Confucianism is most collective.

Collectivism has its downsides. It can be suffocating. Society also doesn’t always take into consideration an individual’s limitations when it comes to meeting societal obligations - a moot point in more individualistic societies.

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