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How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

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Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#41
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance That's the problem to solve, then.

When I want to go shopping I want the store to be the size of a city block. When I want nature I want a huge park, where I can drive a distance inside the park until there are no humans in sight. When I want entertainment the things I'm interested in wouldn't fit in walkable distance. When I want a museam it's going to be large. So tell me, what could you offer me that's small enough to be within walking distance, an…

You’re making it an OR when it’s an AND.

You can have vast forests and parks, massive shopping, and entertainment at a distance AND still live in a livable, walkable place.

If you want to live in a very large home with a huge shop, that’s also possible.

The current model excludes walkable and livable cities in favor of car dependency. Lack of car dependency doesn’t exclude the use of cars or having a mix of use cases. But car dependence by nature does.

Nobody is saying you can’t have central parks, Costco and theme parks or whatever use cases you’re referencing. But you should also enjoy a neighborhood coffee shop and local grocery, a bakery down the street and places for your kids to play while you have dinner right in your own neighborhood.

These are foreign concepts for those used to the suburbs and I often get accosted with comments like your which are deeply valid but reinforce just one set of values without really considering that it’s not a competition, but an addition and enhancement to our way of life — more of a return to what our grandparents enjoyed — that walkable cities is advocating. There is a full spectrum of possibilities.

I won’t even get into the higher property values, healthier lifestyles, reduced cancer and heart disease risks and increased lifespans, the more deeply connected communities… moving away from just cars as the foundation for moving around, between and therefore for planning our cities generates many virtuous cycles.

So, no resistance. You can have it all, but consider that cities could be a LOT better if we struck a real balance.

You should see what people are building…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wrnAsMSwGbg&pp=ygUPV2Fsa2FibGU...

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#42
post #35

The Road User Fee Task Force was almost right. They didn't take into account curb weight. The right way forward is a weight-mile tax, like those levied on fleets and cargo transport. Good news! That will create incentives for lighter passenger vehicles, ending the reign of deadly oversize SUVs. https://jalopnik.com/watch-video-on-us-deadly-obsession-with...

SUVs cause almost no wear on roads. Almost all road damage comes from heavy commercial vehicles.

Every road user should be proportionally assessed, even if that proportion is, on a per-vehicle basis, small.

Right now, road users don't even pay for the roads they use. "Highways, however, have never fully “paid for themselves” through user revenue and are more dependent today on subsidies from general taxpayers than at any time in recent history. The fees drivers pay also don’t even begin to pay for the many costs that highways impose on non-drivers, and are unlikely to be sufficient in the future to fuel the increase in highway capacity favored by highway advocates."

https://pirg.org/newjersey/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Do-Roa...

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#44

I suggest road tax measured by miles and vehicle mass. it would be a good incentive for dropping vehicle mass.

A tire tax is probably the easiest way to accomplish this. Tax a tire based on it's lifespan (measured in tons^4 miles).

That way bikes and escooters can also pay a tiny tax to dispell the idea that they are freeloaders who don't belong on the road.

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#45
post #21

I suggest road tax measured by miles and vehicle mass. it would be a good incentive for dropping vehicle mass.

And how do you propose tracking miles? Keep in mind you should not be taxed for out of state travel, not for travel on private roads.

state inspections here record mileage and is used to validate low mileage discount on insurance. it could also be used to determine road use tax. as for public vrs private roads. assume all travel is public roads and let the user provide acceptable documentation that they traveled on private roads (gps tracks)

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#46

I suggest road tax measured by miles and vehicle mass. it would be a good incentive for dropping vehicle mass.

Miles seems like it might not be worth the added cost of administration. Also note that road damage as a function of weight goes up by roughly a power of 4. Doubling a vehicle's axel load causes 16x the road stress, though that may be in line with what you were suggesting and may even add weight to your point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

yes, that is what I was thinking and why I included mass in addition to miles.
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