Live data from Hacker News

George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

thoughtco.com

331–340 of 429 posts

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I was rather ignorant to for the longest time was how fascism can exist at both ends of the spectrum. My last day on Mastodon was the day a few people ganged up on me quite aggressively for not putting Alt text in an image. Tolerance isn’t acceptance. It’s letting things you don’t like exist without making a big fuss over it. You can dislike certain speech patterns without having to go on a crusade against…

It turns out you can put whatever text you want in the alt text field and it won't get clocked by the scolds because they don't actually care enough to check. It's enough that it appears compliant in a surface-level audit. However, there is an issue suggesting adding an automated scold in the Mastodon client (and Megalodon already has such a scold, plus a (!) of shame on images without alt text) https://github.com/ma…

> I have yet to find an actual vision-impaired person complaining about missing alt text.

One of Mastodon’s top daily posts a couple of days ago was a blind user expressing his gratitude for the culture of forced alt text.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#332
post #155

> I'll bet if they had still been calling it 'shell shock,' some of those Vietnam veterans might have received the attention they needed. History lesson: no, WWI veterans didn't get the attention they needed. This is wistful conservatism wrapped in a shroud of comedy. Don't mistake it for truth or wisdom. The treatment of Vietnam veterans was not a departure from the standard practice of wars predating it. The depth…

Was funny.

I think it's a well-constructed comedic narrative. I disagree with the facts as he presents them and the conclusions he reaches, but I have respect for his art. In my opinion, this is way better than, for example, Seinfeld lashing out because audiences don't find his work funny.

edit: Oh, lol. Perhaps you meant "because he's dead." Whoosh!

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#333
post #24

One I recently heard was "conducting a rif" == "conducting a reduction in force" == "firing people". Soft language is alway to the benefit of the speaker, to assuage guilt or obfuscate intent. It's always to the detriment of the listener.

How is "firing people" more clear in intent than "Reduction in force"? Reduction in force/cutting costs is usually the intent. People getting fired is a side effect. "Firing people" is a more vivid picture, which is exactly why it is not the right term - it's too personal a term for something that usually is not personal. Performance-based layoffs = Firing. Cost/business-outlook-based layoffs = RIFs.

"Lay off" is both succinct and accurate

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#334

George Carlin should be studied, translated and dubbed in every possible language.

Unpopular opinion: much of what he said was just total bs. Even in an example from this article, he goes on a tangent about phrases that were not used then and still are not used. "They're not used cars, they're 'previously owned automobiles.'" What? Nobody calls them that, even today, 30 some odd years later. In my opinion, George Carlin sometimes had some kernel of good observation at the heart of his bits, that he…

I think his best work was his earliest, such as "Seven Words You Can't Say on Television". But ultimately I think his best routine is "Football vs. Baseball" (American football)

"""Baseball is different from any other sport, very different. For instance, in most sports you score points or goals; in baseball you score runs. In most sports the ball, or object, is put in play by the offensive team; in baseball the defensive team puts the ball in play, and only the defense is allowed to touch the ball. In fact, in baseball if an offensive player touches the ball intentionally, he's out; sometimes unintentionally, he's out. ...

In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! - I hope I'll be safe at home!"""

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#335
post #113
post #100

I saw a conversation on Twitter a while ago back when it still was Twitter. The OP with many followers was laying out words and classes of words with negative connotations that shouldn't be used. Someone replied in good faith to OP and asked how we should express negative thoughts. OPs answer was basically that we shouldn't. I find that kind of thought very off putting and minorly disturbing. An important part of the…

Such language policing is double-plus-ungood. (For those that haven’t read the classic Nineteen-eighty-four book by Eric Arthur Blair (pen name: George Orwell) one of the core themes of the story is how the ruling party controlled language, calling it “newspeak”, in order to remove the ability to express certain thoughts or opinions, most notably those that could be used to incite revolution or allow you to express d…

If time travel exists, 1984 is exhibit A.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which term would you use to distinguish between deliberate and accidental civilian casualties?

The difference between deliberate and accidental civilian casualties is not clear cut. For instance, what do you call it when you intend to attack the enemies soldiers with a bunch of bombs but you know a certain percentage will fall on civilians and you accept that inevitability and proceed anyway? Is that deliberate? Not quite, because it wasn't your intention. Was it an accident? Not really, because you knew it wa…

You're right, incidental and primary are better words to use than accidental and deliberate. But every term has grey areas, and people trying to spin truth to make themselves look good. That doesn't make the term meaningless or "soft".

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great recent example is everyone changing whitelist/blacklist to allowlist/blocklist because Americans are so fucking obsessed with race politics that they see it absolutely everywhere

Race politics is pervasive though. Those changes (as wells as master->main) did trigger an initial "get off my lawn" reaction for me, but it's not entirely unreasonable and is no big deal to actually act on.

It's not a big deal, but it's not a trivially small deal either. It's sufficiently annoying that there had better be a good reason. In the case of "slave", there's at least a good argument. "Master" is ridiculous. You cannot speak this language (or Spanish, or Italian, or any other latin-related language that I know of) without that word. We've got master's degrees, master copies, Let It Be (Remastered 2009), and mastery. It has no reason to die, and it will not die in our lifetime. The master->main pain is just performative pain for its own sake.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think fascism is a bad term to use here, totalitarianism or thought-policing is more what you mean. Fascism refers to specific political beliefs including totalitarianism plus some form of cultural supremacy (typically racism, but it can also be religious or nationalistic), rigid hierarchy, and might-makes-right morals. Not all totalitarian regimes are fascist, and the behavior you're describing is neither hierarch…

Not to take away from anything you said, but the woke/PC mob are kind of scary right. They have the cultural supremacy part, like a non theistic religion where adherence to the tenets are required or you'll be excused. Those weird and creepy struggle sessions. Not to mention it is one side of the ongoing culture war. They have the rigid hierarchy known as the progressive stack that ranks people on their immutable cha…

When I say cultural supremacy, I mean the belief that your cultural group is superior to all others, and so its needs are rightfully to be prioritized even over the basic rights of other groups. Even the worse woke mobs I've heard about aren't advocating that, say, it is rightful for a hundred Republicans to go hungry to feed a trans person better or something, so I don't think they check this box.

When I say rigid hierarchy, I mean an actual hierarchical organization where there are leaders giving orders and those below them executing and giving orders of their own down the hierarchy. There is nothing of the kind in woke spaces, they are in fact infamously sectarian and often spontaneously turn on yesterday's leaders for group think. So this box is also not checked.

Might makes right refers to the explicit belief that as long as I can physically force some result, it was rightful and beyond reproach for me to have done so ("I conquered this land so I have proved I am stronger than you so I deserve it more than you"). Antifa may believe that punching nazis is justified, but they believe it is justified because of the evils of nazism, not because violence is self-justifying. Similarly, wielding organizational power against an individual accused of wrongthink is not an example of might makes right, at least not as long as the wrongthink isn't entirely arbitrarily invented for each individual. An example from actual fascist organizations sometimes is culling "weak" members by hazing rituals, where emotional or physical violence is intentionally inflicted simply to see if the subject can withstand it (this also helps in building the rigid hierarchies I mentioned above, as it tends to eliminate people who can't accept arbitrary orders). Again, this box remains un ticked.

So no, I don't think any woke mobs I've heard about resemble fascist organizations. Which, again, is not to say they are good. Just because you're not a fascist doesn't mean you're a force for good in the world, it's entirely possible to be malevolent and dangerous without being fascistic.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think fascism is a bad term to use here, totalitarianism or thought-policing is more what you mean. Fascism refers to specific political beliefs including totalitarianism plus some form of cultural supremacy (typically racism, but it can also be religious or nationalistic), rigid hierarchy, and might-makes-right morals. Not all totalitarian regimes are fascist, and the behavior you're describing is neither hierarch…

A glance at Mastodon top posts will show that the term “fascism” no longer refers to a set of political beliefs that arose in early 20th century Europe, and the associated violent regimes. It is used now for anything whatsoever that the person does not like. For example, since trans advocacy is such a big part of the Mastodon community, I have seen a poster claim that anything less than considering a person their cla…

Comparing people who don't use someone's preferred pronouns/gender association to Hitler is obviously ridiculous and I don't think there's too much to be gained from discussing with someone who believes such a thing.

However, I'm not sure why this contradicts my point. Those people are simply wrong in their use of the word. Unless you believe that Mastodon woke lefties are representative of the broader American English zeitgeist, I doubt you could say that the language has changed such the term fascist just means evil.

Post reply on HN