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The Darién Gap

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Re: The Darién Gap

#61

Post by returningfory2 »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #47
my12parsecs wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder whether the Darien Gap or the US-Mexico border (and surrounding deserts) is more dangerous to cross illegally.

The US–Mexico border is so long and varied, danger is going to vary significantly. I cycled the Baja Divide cycling route, which starts from San Diego and goes through the nearby Otay Mountain wilderness reserve before reaching the Mexican border. The trails around Otay are littered with backpacks dropped by migrants, and when I asked a CBP officer parked in his car monitoring the area, he said that patrols were only…

There’s a good video in which a YouTube creator gets a tour around the US-Mexico border with an Arizona sheriff and discusses these kinds of issues: https://youtu.be/GdYAYgbf5Uc?si=RD8b8NTfxsyv0urz

There’s also a Texas sheriff video, but the Arizona video is more interesting IMO because the sheriff knows more about how immigration law impacts border enforcement.

Re: The Darién Gap

#62

Post by InvaderFizz »

grecy wrote: post #20
nocoiner wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a very cool experience. Is it safe? My naive impression is that northern Mexico and perhaps parts of Central America could be dicey, but I also suppose in Mexico at least the cartels are rational enough to generally avoid targeting foreigners.

Many thousands of people do it every year, and just a few experience pick pocketing or a vehicle smash and grab. If you're smart, don't drive at night and don't go looking for trouble, there's no reason to think you'll have problems. After driving the Pan-Am I drove right around Africa through 35 countries. Never had a single "bad" moment, never heard a single gunshot. I was in LA a couple of months ago, heard gunsho…

Don't drive at night and don't look like a soft target solves most issues with traveling in Mexico.

I've driven the entire Baja peninsula many times and done a road trip across much of central Mexico.

Re: The Darién Gap

#63

Post by ingenieros »

ulrischa wrote: post #53
ingenieros wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see your sources because this is the first time I'm hearing about this and I'm Colombian! For starters, the Muiscas never inhabited that region so this wild claim makes no sense at all! https://colombia.travel/es/bogota/conoce-la-laguna-de-guatav... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Dorado

https://www.enotes.com/topics/legend-el-dorado/critical-essa...

It's a shame that this is behind a paywall and I already used my free enotes trial a long time ago.

Re: The Darién Gap

#65

Post by xk3 »

kortilla wrote: post #38
PanamaNewb wrote: post #32

Hey there. I'm from Panama. The Darien Gap still has foreigners (including wealthy tourists) going there with the crazy idea they can hike through it. The trash being left behind in just the past couple years is just heartbreaking. Mountainous jungles in Panama are extremely easy to get lost in the overgrown vegetation. Tourists have died in hiking trails in Boquete, Veraguas or Cerro Azul by only going a few hundred…

How much of it is about preserving jungles and how much is about keeping Colombians out? From the article yesterday about the failed pan American highway due to the Darien gap, it pointed out that Colombia and Panama are the only two neighboring countries in the world without a road between them. It also explicitly stated that many citizens support that to reduce undocumented immigrants from Colombia.

One big reason why there is no road is to prevent the introduction of foot and mouth disease in Central and North American cattle and horses.

Also, man-eating parasites known as screwworms.

Re: The Darién Gap

#66

Post by dukeyukey »

f5ve wrote: post #5

In the 1690's the Scottish invested an enormous sum of money and human capital to settle this region. The goal was to build and profit from an overland route to ferry cargo from the Pacific to the Atlantic, similar to the Panama Canal today. Due to disease, less-than-accommodating natives, and geopolitical climate, the scheme failed miserably. Many argue the crippling financial effect on Scotland was a key factor in…

Man, they really picked the worst possible place to settle. There aren't many places that are still neat-inhospitable to modern humans, but this is one of them.

Re: The Darién Gap

#67

Post by dehrmann »

PanamaNewb wrote: post #32

Hey there. I'm from Panama. The Darien Gap still has foreigners (including wealthy tourists) going there with the crazy idea they can hike through it. The trash being left behind in just the past couple years is just heartbreaking. Mountainous jungles in Panama are extremely easy to get lost in the overgrown vegetation. Tourists have died in hiking trails in Boquete, Veraguas or Cerro Azul by only going a few hundred…

I suspect there's also not much demand for a road between them.

Re: The Darién Gap

#68

Post by dottjt »

kortilla wrote: post #38
PanamaNewb wrote: post #32

Hey there. I'm from Panama. The Darien Gap still has foreigners (including wealthy tourists) going there with the crazy idea they can hike through it. The trash being left behind in just the past couple years is just heartbreaking. Mountainous jungles in Panama are extremely easy to get lost in the overgrown vegetation. Tourists have died in hiking trails in Boquete, Veraguas or Cerro Azul by only going a few hundred…

How much of it is about preserving jungles and how much is about keeping Colombians out? From the article yesterday about the failed pan American highway due to the Darien gap, it pointed out that Colombia and Panama are the only two neighboring countries in the world without a road between them. It also explicitly stated that many citizens support that to reduce undocumented immigrants from Colombia.

Interestingly, reading this thread has made me realise that roads more-often-than-not are a path for exploitation (equally as you might describe them as a path for opportunity).

Without roads, you cannot build mines or forestries within the area to extract the resources from the land. Just interesting because I've never thought about roads in this way.

Feels like not building roads is a good thing if preserving the land is the intention.

Re: The Darién Gap

#69

Post by dehrmann »

grecy wrote: post #23
jddj wrote: post #21

Random related anecdote. I met a guy in Colombia who was cycling from Canada to Patagonia. He'd made it all the way to the border according to his maps but was stopped by armed military/paramilitary troops and sent back to Panama by river in a dinghy full of (or made to appear to be full of) bananas. In the end he had to fly that leg. It's also common to sail it, Panama city to Cartagena, but the other direction make…

I drove the length of the Pan-American, and shipped my Jeep around in a shipping container. Even back in 2008 when I did it, I met a few backpackers that had crossed the Darien on foot. You take a bus and then hitchhike as far south as you possibly can. Talk to locals, figure something out. Someone will know of a crappy boat or canoe or something to take you a few hours through the swap and then you're on land again.…

> Talk to locals, figure something out.

That's a very optimistic approach for such a deadly trip.

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