Live data from Hacker News

Great Male Renunciation

en.wikipedia.org

51–60 of 156 posts

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#51
post #37

Bright colors used to be a sign of quality, everything expensive had tons of colors. Industrial revolution changed that, now bright colors are associated with cheap toys instead because they are used to cover deficiencies in the production process. So it makes sense that people who care about quality moved away from colorful things.

I wonder how much of it had to do with the rise in pollution due to coal dust and soot?

Mid to late 1700s was well before widespread industrialization.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we though? I sure as heck can't afford to pay a staff of servants.

Most people couldn't afford to pay a staff of servants. ... But you can stay at a Holiday Inn tonight.

Well, having servants for one night only isn't really comparable to paying for them several decades.

Also can't be stressed enough how large the servant staff could be. It often has a management hierarcy of sorts.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#53
post #37

Bright colors used to be a sign of quality, everything expensive had tons of colors. Industrial revolution changed that, now bright colors are associated with cheap toys instead because they are used to cover deficiencies in the production process. So it makes sense that people who care about quality moved away from colorful things.

Long distance travel also became much more common for wealthy young men during this time period, so the shear impracticality of the style likely prevented a large portion of them from wearing it, even if they preferred the style, for long stretches of time.

This was well before the invention of rip-proof or stain-proof fabrics.

Also the royal courts of Europe started becoming much less active, as the professional bureaucracy started forming which took care of routine decision making.

So the young noble man just back from his travels would have had far less opportunity to show off in formal settings to boot.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#54
Somehow this relates to a political(?) bombing?!

So I went to the Wikipedia article, and from there ended up at

> The Men's Dress Reform Party (MDRP) was a reform movement in interwar Britain.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_Dress_Reform_Party

which

> saw [the everyday man's] clothes as "depressing"[2] and lacking in creativity

and which was affiliated with the Sunlight Leage. But:

> Then, in 1940, the Sunlight League also dissipated after a bomb destroyed their offices and the death of its founder, Dr. Saleeby.

Emphasis: "a bomb destroyed their offices". What?

This just raises more questions.

...

Also, I wonder if this has any relation to a story by D. H. Lawrence called Sun. Hm.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#55
post #37

Bright colors used to be a sign of quality, everything expensive had tons of colors. Industrial revolution changed that, now bright colors are associated with cheap toys instead because they are used to cover deficiencies in the production process. So it makes sense that people who care about quality moved away from colorful things.

This is a kind of theory that would apply equally to social signaling for both men and women. The linked article is talking about how there was an interesting phenomenon shifting men's clothing, but not women's.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A relevant quote about the change of affordability of certain things from the late Agatha Christie looking back at her early years - "I couldn’t imagine being too poor to afford servants, nor so rich as to be able to afford a car." With respect to material culture - so also with respect to what clothing styles and fashions are possible - anybody who can afford a car is far richer than people who had servants a hundre…

Cars were an arguably overvalued novelty at the time. The more fundamental question should be something like, do you need to work to put food on your table. If yes, then you are not wealthy.

Here in Berlin, we have a "pfand" (deposit) on various bottles. At a summer barbecue you sometimes get people asking to take your bottles away, so they can collect that deposit themselves.

For the larger bottles, just four per day would equal the income of a pre-industrial farmhand.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the modern era everyone is rich to their standards.

Are we though? I sure as heck can't afford to pay a staff of servants.

Generally I’m not sure the modern world is better, but you probably do own a lot of machines that take the place of many things servants would have done in the past. Laundry machine, dishwasher machine, mixing machine, fire tending machine, etc.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#59
post #37

Bright colors used to be a sign of quality, everything expensive had tons of colors. Industrial revolution changed that, now bright colors are associated with cheap toys instead because they are used to cover deficiencies in the production process. So it makes sense that people who care about quality moved away from colorful things.

It's probably not cheap toys as much as the rise of synthetic dyes generally meant color was no longer a mark of cost. The denim community still likes indigo because it fades, but that could just be signifier that it's authentic.

It could also just be that color attracts attention. With birds, it's often the male that's more colorful. See peafowl.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A relevant quote about the change of affordability of certain things from the late Agatha Christie looking back at her early years - "I couldn’t imagine being too poor to afford servants, nor so rich as to be able to afford a car." With respect to material culture - so also with respect to what clothing styles and fashions are possible - anybody who can afford a car is far richer than people who had servants a hundre…

Cars were an arguably overvalued novelty at the time. The more fundamental question should be something like, do you need to work to put food on your table. If yes, then you are not wealthy.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN