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Ubuntu Linux snuck into high-end Dell laptops

zdnet.com

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Re: Ubuntu Linux snuck into high-end Dell laptops

#31

Post by gtvwill »

kwanbix wrote: post #18
gtvwill wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have fixed multiple hundreds of laptops over about a decade across hundreds of clients. I've literally seen one ThinkPad the whole time. It had some weird ass 1.8 inch storage drive down one of the side rails of the chassis which is why I remembered it. The machine was wack af from a repair techs pov. Makes me feel like they aren't that popular outside of IT departments.

Because they don't break as much?

You'd still expect to see them in the offices. Some of these places run > 10'000 devices. All dell. Not a Lenovo on site. Maybe dell just had a better salesman up this neck of the woods. I was a Lenovo and Dell tech at the time so it's not like I wasn't sent to work on them. Just bugger all of them around here. I was the only warranty tech for like 250km.

Re: Ubuntu Linux snuck into high-end Dell laptops

#32

Post by jchw »

petepete wrote: post #2

I bought an XPS13 in 2012 or so with Ubuntu preinstalled and it was rock solid for years (although I ran Fedora on it). I remember buying it was really difficult, it wasn't listed on the UK website and in the end I had to phone their sales number and was passed through several people who'd never heard of Ubuntu. A few days later I received an email with a link to an unlisted store item that had the same photos as the…

I suspect this happened because when DELL first launched laptops with Linux, it gave them some surprising bad press. Certainly the most famous being the woman who apparently was dropping out of college as a result of accidentally ordering a Ubuntu DELL laptop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qj8p-PEwbI

This probably seems like a weird one-off, but this story went pretty viral, of course it went viral on the internet for other reasons, but I'm sure the blame being placed squarely on DELL probably did lead to them being a bit spooked about consumer confusion.

The fact that nobody at DELL or elsewhere could just tell her that she can in fact, pretty easily install Windows on the machine is... well, a little frustrating to say the least. The college's IT department was aware enough of Linux to be able to say they can handle it, but not enough to say "Y'know, just for what it's worth... You can just buy and install Windows."

Re: Ubuntu Linux snuck into high-end Dell laptops

#33

Post by csdvrx »

Astronaut3315 wrote: post #8
csdvrx wrote: post #3

In theory, laptops from Dell should work with Linux. In practice, not so much, especially if you like to sleep and wake up from sleep everytime without a crash + a reasonable power consumption, both during use and during sleep. IMHO consumption during sleep far more important: if I didn't plug the computer, I expect it to wake up immediately (no S4/suspend to disk) and with less than 0.5% of battery lost per hour (so…

My work machine, a Precision 5550 (XPS 15) has never been able to reliably wake from sleep. Ubuntu, Pop!_OS, Windows 11- it doesn’t matter.

> never been able to reliably wake from sleep. Ubuntu, Pop!_OS, Windows 11- it doesn’t matter.

Same, with other Dells. There was one where I analyzed the BIOS ACPI tables and concluded it was impossible to wake from sleep on any OS, due to bugs I've found: I can't find my old post, but https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/kolf5f/patching_the_d... is a good summary.

Error on Dell ACPI tables are usual: for the 5510, see https://gist.github.com/jamal-fuma/17d2d605280a52376326384c4...

I also remember someone doing deeping ACPI table modifications to limit the power draw on the Xeon Laptops. I can't find the link right now, but IIRC it was related to the PCH powergating.

These issues plague the whole line. For another analysis (and confirmation), this time on how deep C states (very important for temperature and for sleep) can only be reached one after boot, see https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/precision-mo...

Re: Ubuntu Linux snuck into high-end Dell laptops

#35

Post by forinti »

csdvrx wrote: post #3

In theory, laptops from Dell should work with Linux. In practice, not so much, especially if you like to sleep and wake up from sleep everytime without a crash + a reasonable power consumption, both during use and during sleep. IMHO consumption during sleep far more important: if I didn't plug the computer, I expect it to wake up immediately (no S4/suspend to disk) and with less than 0.5% of battery lost per hour (so…

I recently got a Latitude for work. Linux works fine, but I could not get the wifi to work on FreeBSD.

Re: Ubuntu Linux snuck into high-end Dell laptops

#37

Post by csdvrx »

The_Colonel wrote: post #29
dmw_ng wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run two XPS 15s (2015ish 9550 workhorse / main computer, 2022ish 9250) and haven't had the slightest issue with either, although I keep the on board Nvidia disabled on both, which might explain the "reasonable power consumption" bit. Hardware on the other hand, these things are like caring for an anorexic bubble baby with severe bone density issues. The hardware is a piece of shit, but also extremely easy to repair…

These old ones still had a proper S3 sleep support. The new Dells are on the "modern standby" crap pushed by Microsoft and deep sleep doesn't work on any OS. Somehow we managed to regress, it's no longer safe to just close your laptop and put it to your backpack. (few times I did that with my Precision 5550, it got so hot I was afraid the battery will explode)

> the "modern standby" crap pushed by Microsoft and deep sleep doesn't work on any OS.

I disagree: technically, it can be made to work, at least with some effort.

On my Lenovo X1 fold, I do get 0.5%/h of sleep, cf the slope of the sleepstudy curve on Windows https://csdvrx.github.io/X1_Fold_(20RL_20RK)_Optimization/pa... ; the root cause of most of my problems were the Intel drivers, more details on https://csdvrx.github.io/

Just turning off wireless with a powershell script before sleep helps a lot, on Linux of course you have more leeway with systemd-suspend hooks.

> my Precision 5550, it got so hot I was afraid the battery will explode

We've got very similar experiences with Dell

Re: Ubuntu Linux snuck into high-end Dell laptops

#38

Post by smallerfish »

The camera doesn't work on the current XPS13 if you upgrade to a 6.X kernel (which, to be fair, means moving outside of Dell's packaging.) Technically this is Intel's fault, as they haven't released firmware for it yet. Still, hopefully the Dell team avoid similar issues in future configs by ensuring better driver support.

It's a nice laptop otherwise.

Re: Ubuntu Linux snuck into high-end Dell laptops

#39

Post by csdvrx »

jacquesm wrote: post #13
Frotag wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lenovo laptops tend to be best bang for buck but ime poor build quality and support. I've sent each of the three I've owned in for warranty repair at some point. It took at least a month for all of them and two of them still died a month or two later from repair-related issues (eg glue around new lcd housing was too weak and it eventually warped / cracked).

Lenovo's consumer products suck but the high end stuff is reasonably solid.

> the high end stuff is reasonably solid.

Agreed: in the current lineup, don't buy anything that's not from the X series.

Re: Ubuntu Linux snuck into high-end Dell laptops

#40

Post by TaylorAlexander »

jchw wrote: post #32
petepete wrote: post #2

I bought an XPS13 in 2012 or so with Ubuntu preinstalled and it was rock solid for years (although I ran Fedora on it). I remember buying it was really difficult, it wasn't listed on the UK website and in the end I had to phone their sales number and was passed through several people who'd never heard of Ubuntu. A few days later I received an email with a link to an unlisted store item that had the same photos as the…

I suspect this happened because when DELL first launched laptops with Linux, it gave them some surprising bad press. Certainly the most famous being the woman who apparently was dropping out of college as a result of accidentally ordering a Ubuntu DELL laptop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qj8p-PEwbI This probably seems like a weird one-off, but this story went pretty viral, of course it went viral on the internet…

I have no evidence for this but you can imagine someone at Microsoft saying "Dell has started selling laptops without Windows! We need to run an 'information campaign' to tell people why they should not use Ubuntu! Let's cough 'find' a college student who lost everything because of this operating system and then feed it to a local news channel."

I can't say if this happened, but the whole story sounds like a dark PR campaign to spread fear about Dell's choice and try to take some steam out of their rollout. Microsoft obviously had a lot of money on the line if Dell found success with Ubuntu.

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