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The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

cacm.acm.org

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Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#141

Post by rrr_oh_man »

asdff wrote: post #70
rrr_oh_man wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disagreeing with your point in general, but: Not everyone can become an architect or water systems engineer at 50, after having worked a "general assistant" type office job for many years. I think that (and its consequences) might be the biggest short term societal risk of automation in an aging society. How would you solve this problem?

Why can't you become these things at 50? Considering you can become them at 23, having worked perhaps in fast food for a few years prior?

I appreciate that question!

Something something about age and responsibilities and tiredness and not having trained for that, but... it's worth it to think about it, anyway — at least as risk-mitigation for yourself, going forward.

Maybe we'll all end up as plumbers?

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#142

Post by deergomoo »

Hgelo wrote: post #121
omscs99 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothetically, if she figured out how to automate it on her own, would she get any kind of reward for it? If not, why should she automate it? Another example, if there’s some repetitive task that you automate at a software dev job, would you get rewarded for figuring out how to automate it? The answer is obviously dependent on culture, at my current gig you just get brushed off Seems to me like you’re assuming that…

I hate this take on optimization. She would of course get a raise or would succeed otherwise in our economy. The only reason why I'm as successful as I am is that people understand that I'm so good in optimizing shit that they give me raises. And alone the time I have to myself to skill up instead of waisting it on repetitive things is ridiculous if you think about return of investment and reinvestment.

> She would of course get a raise or would succeed otherwise in our economy.

Are you kidding? I'm happy your optimisations have been recognised and rewarded, because that's how it should be, but this lady would almost certainly just get more work to fill that newly freed time, for no additional compensation.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#143

Post by vore »

ethbr1 wrote: post #3

I understand this is ACM, but I would say the decline has strictly been a failure of software . Specifically, corporate IT's failure to deliver general purpose development tools usable by anyone in a company to make computers do work for them (aka programming). There's still a ton of general value that could be delivered by general purpose processors/computers. But instead, most non-programmers live in a Kafkaesque r…

This article has absolutely nothing to do with what you’re saying. This article is about how certain types of calculations are better suited and are more efficient on specialized processors. I don’t know what finding dates in Excel has to do with this.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#144

Post by JohnFen »

omscs99 wrote: post #56
ethbr1 wrote: post #3

I understand this is ACM, but I would say the decline has strictly been a failure of software . Specifically, corporate IT's failure to deliver general purpose development tools usable by anyone in a company to make computers do work for them (aka programming). There's still a ton of general value that could be delivered by general purpose processors/computers. But instead, most non-programmers live in a Kafkaesque r…

Hypothetically, if she figured out how to automate it on her own, would she get any kind of reward for it? If not, why should she automate it? Another example, if there’s some repetitive task that you automate at a software dev job, would you get rewarded for figuring out how to automate it? The answer is obviously dependent on culture, at my current gig you just get brushed off Seems to me like you’re assuming that…

> if she figured out how to automate it on her own, would she get any kind of reward for it? If not, why should she automate it?

Because it makes her job easier or improves her performance?

That's why I automate things at work, anyway. Being rewarded by my company for doing it doesn't really enter into the equation for me.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#145

Post by JohnFen »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #118
omscs99 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothetically, if she figured out how to automate it on her own, would she get any kind of reward for it? If not, why should she automate it? Another example, if there’s some repetitive task that you automate at a software dev job, would you get rewarded for figuring out how to automate it? The answer is obviously dependent on culture, at my current gig you just get brushed off Seems to me like you’re assuming that…

What the fuck are we doing as a society that we have such a system of perverse incentives in place?

Our society is geared -- at all levels -- towards minimizing expense regardless of the impact on quality or even on society in general. We're all racing to the bottom.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#146

Post by LtWorf »

JohnFen wrote: post #144
omscs99 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothetically, if she figured out how to automate it on her own, would she get any kind of reward for it? If not, why should she automate it? Another example, if there’s some repetitive task that you automate at a software dev job, would you get rewarded for figuring out how to automate it? The answer is obviously dependent on culture, at my current gig you just get brushed off Seems to me like you’re assuming that…

> if she figured out how to automate it on her own, would she get any kind of reward for it? If not, why should she automate it? Because it makes her job easier or improves her performance? That's why I automate things at work, anyway. Being rewarded by my company for doing it doesn't really enter into the equation for me.

What happens to her if her performance is improved?

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#147

Post by JohnFen »

SoftTalker wrote: post #19
glandium wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of a counterpoint: I've heard countless stories (albeit, in Japan) of people doing things like "manually" doing additions of numbers they already have in a spreadsheet instead of just asking Excel to do the addition in what, two clicks, because they "can't trust the computer to do it right" which sounds like a BS rationalization to justify that they wouldn't have much of a job if the computer was doing it.

I mean not exactly the same thing but just last night Apple Maps was directing me to turn down a street that had clearly been closed for some time. Computers "make mistakes" all the time in most peoples' experience and after you get burned a few times (especially if you get badly burned, like getting fired over the "mistake") you learn to not blindy trust computers.

Being a developer for a number of decades has firmly taught me to never blindly trust computers. Even if the software is flawless (which is literally never the case), there's still the GIGO problem which your Apple Maps example demonstrates.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#148

Post by JohnFen »

oldsecondhand wrote: post #101
concordDance wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does she find that task enjoyable and fulfilling? If not, it's bullshit. And if bet money on it NOT being enjoyable and fulfilling. Humans almost universally hate being cogs doing the same repetitive trivial action over and over.

Do janitors find their job enjoyable and fulfilling? Probably not. Their job is still important for the functioning of society, so I wouldn't call it bullshit.

I was a janitor for a long time in my younger years, and I actually did find it enjoyable and fulfilling. Just sayin'.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#149

Post by JohnFen »

solatic wrote: post #135
userbinator wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the fuck are we doing as a society, that this lady, with a machine that could compute the above in a fraction of a second, has to spend a decent chunk of her work time doing this? To put it bluntly: do you want her to be unemployed instead?

Yes. A human mind is a terrible thing to waste. Plenty of people don't look for more fulfilling work because what they already have is "good enough" and it brings home a paycheck that supports the people who depend on them. Oftentimes, people need a push, and doing so can be an act of compassion. Laying people off is not some death sentence; it's a disruptive event that well-adjusted people will recover from. That's…

> Oftentimes, people need a push, and doing so can be an act of compassion.

Only if those people have asked for the push. If they haven't, then it's not at all an act of compassion.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology (2021)

#150

Post by JohnFen »

auggierose wrote: post #94
asdff wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't you become these things at 50? Considering you can become them at 23, having worked perhaps in fast food for a few years prior?

Good question! Wait until you are 50, maybe you can answer it then ;-)

I (and most of my social circle) am over 50, and I can answer that question: there's no solid reason you can't train for and be successful in a different career later in life. I've seen it happen too often to think otherwise.

Whether or not you want to is an entirely different question, of course.

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