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Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

electrek.co

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Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#181

Post by pfdietz »

pkulak wrote: post #33
daoboy wrote: post #12

Can anyone recommend a good article comparing environmental lifecycle costs of EV vs combustion engine that include lithium and cobalt mining?

https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-car... The takeaway is that any analysis that suggests gas cars are better, at the very least, assumes that gasoline exists in pools just under gas stations. But gas is mined, just like lithium, and gas cars require 100s of tonnes, instead of 100s of pounds.

The CO2 effects of gasoline use will far outweigh any effects of mining for EV materials.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#182

Post by erik_seaberg »

fragmede wrote: post #150
lamontcg wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember the last time I had to wait in line for gas that wasn't at Costco. Costco is a pretty extreme outlier. But agreed that charging should shift to the home, the problem there is chargers for on-street parking though for people who don't have driveways/garages (of course this might eventually get solved by fully automated vehicles and lowering ownership of vehicles, but that's still vaporware right now w…

It's not too hard to imagine parking meters having charging ports.

That's a first step, but I don't see parking meters in US suburbs. Some barely have streetlights.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#183

Post by robocat »

prepend wrote: post #173
lamontcg wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember the last time I had to wait in line for gas that wasn't at Costco. Costco is a pretty extreme outlier. But agreed that charging should shift to the home, the problem there is chargers for on-street parking though for people who don't have driveways/garages (of course this might eventually get solved by fully automated vehicles and lowering ownership of vehicles, but that's still vaporware right now w…

It’s not the waiting that’s the important part. It’s that lots of people want to get gas and they can’t all wait 20-30 minutes to recharge.

Especially problematic during peak periods like longer distance holiday travel?

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#184

Post by fy20 »

thelastgallon wrote: post #99
macNchz wrote: post #10

A couple of comments on the article point out that if gas stations start closing due to reduced demand, it will accelerate the effect by making it more cumbersome to own a gas car. Recently, some of the industrial area near my apartment in NYC was rezoned for housing, and nearly all of the local gas stations were torn down (not because of low demand but because a 15 story building would be more profitable). The resul…

Owning a gas car will become inconvenient and expensive very soon. The number of gas stations has gone down from 202K to 115K, ~50% down[1]. Gas stations make very little money on gas, most of their income is from people buying cigarette, lotteries, lotto, beer, beverages, and some trinkets in the store. All profits are at the margins. When foot traffic drops, even by 10 - 20%, gas stations are not viable. They can i…

If that's the case, then why are they making it more convenient to pay?

Where I am (in Europe) all the major petrol stations have mobile apps you can pay with. One even launched a system where you can register your license plate, and whatever you fill up is automatically charged to your account.

If foot traffic is all that makes money, it seems they should want you to go into the store, not pay from your phone.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#185

Post by erik_seaberg »

soniman wrote: post #144

What happens when the electricity goes out? And the food in the fridge goes bad and nobody can get to the store because the electric car isn't charged? Have we really thought this through? Redundant energy sources makes sense.

I remember a concern during Y2K prep that an extended power outage would cause problems pumping gas (and Diesel, which would be the real hurdle for rebooting logistics).

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#186

Post by phantom784 »

blondie9x wrote: post #8

Oil is still being used for plastic products. It will still be mined and drilled or fracked until all uses of oil diminish.

If oil is only being used in a product that won't eventually be burned and produce CO2, then that's a big win.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#187

Post by travisgriggs »

roenxi wrote: post #179
travisgriggs wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not Norwegian, but lived there for 2 years, in multiple places from Narvik to Stavanager to Oslo to Trondheim. Population wise, Norway slots between Minnesota and South Carolina and is ~7.5x the mighty "city" of Alaska. It has a mainland latitude sweep of nearly 24 degrees, California covers 16 degrees of latitude. It's coastline is a mind boggling 51,748 miles. I can't find a good stat on total road network size, bu…

> Population wise, Norway slots between Minnesota and South Carolina and is ~7.5x the mighty "city" of Alaska. It has a mainland latitude sweep of nearly 24 degrees, California covers 16 degrees of latitude And yet the first 4 things you choose to compare Norway to are, conspicuously, not countries. If we want to compare Norway to a country, by wealth and population it makes about as much sense to talk about Liechten…

Sorry, as a US resident, I figured states worked better as a point of reference. They're, supposedly, like a bunch of little countries, similar to the EU.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#188

Post by jncfhnb »

ben_w wrote: post #163
jncfhnb wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having the drop in the bucket is not, however, a path to being rich.

It is when your standard for "rich" is framed in terms of "can afford to buy good boots".

Which is not the definition implied by the original quote so great. We agree.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#189

Post by mcpackieh »

chongli wrote: post #45
daveFNbuck wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think most people make a special trip just to get gas. It's usually a quick added stop along the way of another trip, which is less of a nuisance than having to make two small walks to move and plug/unplug your car.

The GP was responding to a point about the closure of gas stations accelerating the decline of ICE vehicles. If all the stations near where you normally travel close, then you are forced to make a special trip to fill up.

The last gas stations standing won't be in remote areas far from everything else. They'll be in heavily trafficked areas that everybody goes to regularly, particularly near grocery stores.
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