Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 217 posts

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#151

Post by jncfhnb »

throw0101c wrote: post #118
jncfhnb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This effect is true but the thesis is dumb. The rich are rich because of the compounding effects of wealth. Not that small fraction spent on durable goods.

> The rich are rich because of the compounding effects of wealth. Not that small fraction spent on durable goods. The less you (have to) spend on goods and services the more you can keep invested to compound. If 100% (or more) of your income is taken up by paying for necessities (shelter, food, transportation), what do you have to compound? * https://ofdollarsanddata.com/the-biggest-lie-in-personal-fin...

No, this is the misleading thing. Which your article is largely agreeing with me on.

The compounding effect of wealth scales with the amount of wealth you have more than the incremental savings you’re likely to earn. Trimming your expenses won’t make a difference. If you have no wealth and low income then the compounding is irrelevant. Even if your income is high it’s very hard to acquire “wealth”.

Poor folks will be poor even if you chop their expenses by half.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#152

Post by jncfhnb »

ben_w wrote: post #95
jncfhnb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shrug. It’s a tiny drop in the bucket.

When you're rich, it is. When you're poor, you can't afford the bucket.

Having the drop in the bucket is not, however, a path to being rich.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#153

Post by simfree »

fragmede wrote: post #150
lamontcg wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember the last time I had to wait in line for gas that wasn't at Costco. Costco is a pretty extreme outlier. But agreed that charging should shift to the home, the problem there is chargers for on-street parking though for people who don't have driveways/garages (of course this might eventually get solved by fully automated vehicles and lowering ownership of vehicles, but that's still vaporware right now w…

It's not too hard to imagine parking meters having charging ports.

Running a 240v 50A power cable is orders of magnitude cheaper than building a gas pump.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#154

Post by [deleted] »

thelastgallon wrote: post #99
macNchz wrote: post #10

A couple of comments on the article point out that if gas stations start closing due to reduced demand, it will accelerate the effect by making it more cumbersome to own a gas car. Recently, some of the industrial area near my apartment in NYC was rezoned for housing, and nearly all of the local gas stations were torn down (not because of low demand but because a 15 story building would be more profitable). The resul…

Owning a gas car will become inconvenient and expensive very soon. The number of gas stations has gone down from 202K to 115K, ~50% down[1]. Gas stations make very little money on gas, most of their income is from people buying cigarette, lotteries, lotto, beer, beverages, and some trinkets in the store. All profits are at the margins. When foot traffic drops, even by 10 - 20%, gas stations are not viable. They can i…

[deleted]

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#155

Post by randerson »

soniman wrote: post #144

What happens when the electricity goes out? And the food in the fridge goes bad and nobody can get to the store because the electric car isn't charged? Have we really thought this through? Redundant energy sources makes sense.

With many cars now you get V2L charging, so you can use the giant battery in your car to power your fridge. You have to keep your car charged, but that is easy to do if you have a charger at home.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#156

Post by thebruce87m »

billfor wrote: post #42
macNchz wrote: post #10

A couple of comments on the article point out that if gas stations start closing due to reduced demand, it will accelerate the effect by making it more cumbersome to own a gas car. Recently, some of the industrial area near my apartment in NYC was rezoned for housing, and nearly all of the local gas stations were torn down (not because of low demand but because a 15 story building would be more profitable). The resul…

Where do you see convenient charging stations? Tesla shows 4 superchargers in all of Manhattan and 3 in Brooklyn, not including 3rd party stations that can take 2 hours to charge the car. What is the population of Manhattan and Brooklyn?

I only use Superchargers for long journeys, and I don’t do many. Even when I do it’s only 20mins max and then off.

I haven’t used any public charging in the last 3 months.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#157

Post by soniman »

randerson wrote: post #155
soniman wrote: post #144

What happens when the electricity goes out? And the food in the fridge goes bad and nobody can get to the store because the electric car isn't charged? Have we really thought this through? Redundant energy sources makes sense.

With many cars now you get V2L charging, so you can use the giant battery in your car to power your fridge. You have to keep your car charged, but that is easy to do if you have a charger at home.

So you're saying that something like Powerwall will be the backup power solution? An additional $15,000?

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#158

Post by thebruce87m »

soniman wrote: post #144

What happens when the electricity goes out? And the food in the fridge goes bad and nobody can get to the store because the electric car isn't charged? Have we really thought this through? Redundant energy sources makes sense.

My car rarely goes lower than 70% charged. I charge it to 80% every night (recommended) and use less than 10% every day. On average, my EV is fuller than my diesel was at any random point.

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#159

Post by [deleted] »

prepend wrote: post #141
throw_pm23 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good observations (and relevant username). Just pointing out that people spending 15-20 mins at stations is not unrealistic. At least near motorways, gas stations already position themselves as a place where you can do your regular rest during a long drive, with diners, cafes, children's playgrounds, etc., some drivers even catch a quick nap in the parking lot -- this is how it looks in Europe at least.

> Just pointing out that people spending 15-20 mins at stations is not unrealistic. This is super unrealistic due to volume. I filled my car at Costco this morning. I spent about 3 minutes pumping 10 gallons. At the same time, 25 other cars filled up at the 25 pumps. And there was a line backed up. To change refuel times from 3-5 minutes to 15-20 (rather optimistic based on my supercharging experience) won’t work unl…

[deleted]

Re: Cratering motor fuel sales in Norway show the death spiral that can end oil

#160

Post by Podgajski »

guidoism wrote: post #97
jncfhnb wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s more troubling to view owning a car as a base right that everyone should have. It’s better as a luxury. We want fewer cars and for people to live in walkable areas where cars are not needed.

100% agree. But…. how do we get there? A LOT of people in the US living in very (gross) spread-out areas where there is horrible pedestrian infrastructure. The infrastructure that does exist seems like it was put in place to mock those without cars (sidewalks on extremely loud stroads). I currently live in such a place. The end-point I want is for people to live in dense walkable areas by default. But people don’t li…

I am homeless and live in a 2001 Dodge grand Caravan. So they’re not even thinking about people like me. Nor the hundreds of people I see parked out in the deserts of Arizona because they can’t afford housing.

If they want EV adoption, they also have to Provide housing.

Post reply on HN