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It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

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Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#241

Post by _kbh_ »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #49
Pxtl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evidence from reputable OSINT orgs like Bellingcat is pretty-much showing evidence that this was an accident on the part of Palistinian fighters. There are multiple videos showing a volley of rockets were launched from within Gaza (not from Bellingcat, but other OSINT groups -- Bellingcat not ready to make a final conclusion here). One of the rockets appeared to fail while it was rising - it swerved wildly and th…

> evidence from reputable OSINT orgs like Bellingcat Do you have a link to their findings?

You can find there investigation here.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2023/10/18/identifying-possi...

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#242

Post by locallost »

rasz wrote: post #239
locallost wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read Reuters [1]. They quote the Orthodox Church itself: > A Greek Orthodox church in the Gaza Strip which was sheltering hundreds of displaced Palestinians was hit overnight by an Israeli air strike, the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem said, and Palestinian health officials said 16 people were killed. > There was no word from the Church on a death toll. > The Israeli military said a part of the church was damag…

So pictures taken by Hamas and journalists are no evidence for you of continued existence of the Church. How about video feed from the jet dropping the bomb? From Greek Orthodox source no less: https://twitter.com/greekcitytimes/status/171550351226695719...

I said they bombed a church. You said I should reconsider my sources. My source was Reuters, quoting the Church representatives, saying: "...was hit overnight by an Israeli air strike".

In no shape or form was it anywhere implied that the church no longer exists, just that it was bombed. The quote from a non-hamas source in a respectable news source confirms it was hit. That you're poorly attempting to make some kind of an argument that never was tells me you have no leg to stand on.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#243

Post by kcplate »

cma wrote: post #72
mkmk wrote: post #9

A long time ago, I worked for a brand that bought expensive advertisements in the nytimes. The sales team invited me to be a silent attendee of the 'page one meeting', a meeting during which the editors decide which stories will be on the front page of the paper and how they will be presented. By that time, they were also discussing if certain stories warranted a push notification, and how tweets would be presented.…

> A long time ago, I worked for a brand that bought expensive advertisements in the nytimes. The sales team invited me to be a silent attendee of the 'page one meeting', Is this normal? So when they were reporting on tobacco cancer and deciding if it went on the front page there would be like a silent Philip Morris employee in the room staring them down and sitting with the sales team? Or was there one-way glass or s…

There is supposed to be a “wall” between the advertising department and the newsroom but in my experience of working at a major daily newspaper some decades ago, there were plenty of windows and doors in that wall. Is this story worth risking 5% of our ad revenue?

Large advertisers may not have full control over stories that affect them, but their ad spend definitely can have an influence. A negative but not all that newsworthy might get buried a bit, and a positive but not newsworthy might gain some prominence. A negative but big story would probably not influenced.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#244

Post by nradov »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #125
numlocked wrote: post #10

I don’t have a dog in the fight and have been a long time NYT subscriber but I concur with Nate on this one. The NYT coverage here has become even worse in the last few hours. It’s truly bizarre. Here is their latest: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/20/briefing/gaza-hospital.ht... The headline is: Gaza and the Trudeau Problem It begins with an inexplicable few paragraphs about Canada and India before taking a sharp l…

>I don’t have a dog in the fight and have been a long time NYT subscriber but I concur with Nate on this one. This is so, so untrue, and it makes me sad to read this. Your dog is the one dying of self-inflicted wounds, and everyone would be better off if it would stop. Everyone benefits when reliable information sources exist, they report on a wide portfolio of events under that reliable letterhead, and we know where…

It's a little too late to be mourning the loss of the New York Times as a serious journalistic institution. They switched to fake news decades ago. We'll have to find another solution.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#245

Post by hcrisp »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #57
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> evidence from reputable OSINT orgs like Bellingcat Do you have a link to their findings?

Not OSINT, but the BBC and the guardian going over some of the evidence: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-h... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061

Also AP News with multiple videos:

Headline" "AP Visual Analysis: Rocket from Gaza appeared to go astray, likely caused deadly hospital explosion"

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hos...

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#246

Post by eli_gottlieb »

tenacious_tuna wrote: post #153
gotoeleven wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im just a simple country boy but it seems to me that you can balance a budget by reducing spending or raising revenue.

Yes, but note both suggestions omit doing anything to ultra-wealthy and continue to drive the wedge between the lower and middle classes, each being told the other is why they can't have nice things.

I actually chose "upper-middle class" rather than "ultra-wealthy" because if we take the ultra-wealthy to be the top 1% or 0.1% or smaller, there just aren't enough actual "ultra-wealthy" people to balance any significant budget by taxing them. Whereas the top 10% or 20% are numerous enough that you can collect serious revenue from them, consistently, and there are fewer ways to dodge that kind of tax.

Which, looping around, is precisely why the ultra-wealthy want to prevent anyone getting the idea of taxing the upper-middle class: that's what they mostly disguise themselves as for tax purposes.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#247

Post by jakelazaroff »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #236
jakelazaroff wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to the opposite conclusion. We can probably just agree to disagree on this.

That's fine, although I would be curious to hear what made you reach the opposite conclusion.

- The IDF often lies when the truth makes them look bad, as in the case of the murder of journalist Shireen Abu Akleh: first they claimed she was shot by Palestinians, then that she was caught in crossfire, until it finally emerged that she had been killed by an Israeli sniper

- The IDF often attacks hospitals

- The IDF warned people to evacuate the hospital repeatedly in the days leading up to the attack

- IDF affiliates initially claimed credit for the attack

- The IDF posted video “proving” it was a failed rocket launch, then removed the video without acknowledging it when people pointed out that the timestamps didn’t line up

- The IDF released an inculpatory recording of Hamas that has since been widely discredited

- To the extent that they are able to investigate, many independent organizations have not found evidence supporting the IDF’s claims

- The US is resisting calls to allow independent investigations

- The IDF has targeted other hospitals since the air strike

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#248

Post by kylebenzle »

FormerBandmate wrote: post #64
throwaway237289 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is still a site about creating businesses, right? The NYT needs to consider its customers, and ensure they find the balance to make its customers happy. For them, there's a fine line between event reporting, "truth", and point of view. It's not political backlash. It's pissing off your subscription base. And that's really dumb.

As a customer of news, I want the fucking news. If I want people’s opinions I will go to the opinion section

Until they are saying something bad about your religion, then things change real quick.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#249

Post by mupuff1234 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #247
mupuff1234 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, although I would be curious to hear what made you reach the opposite conclusion.

- The IDF often lies when the truth makes them look bad, as in the case of the murder of journalist Shireen Abu Akleh: first they claimed she was shot by Palestinians, then that she was caught in crossfire, until it finally emerged that she had been killed by an Israeli sniper - The IDF often attacks hospitals - The IDF warned people to evacuate the hospital repeatedly in the days leading up to the attack - IDF affil…

Thanks! Don't want to argue, but basically seems like you made up your mind without taking most of the actual evidence into consideration, although i can fully understand being skeptical of the IDF (although of course I'm even more skeptical of Hamas)

Here's another piece of evidence to consider (although you'll probably disqualify it since it's from the IDF), a video that shows just high the hamas/jihad rocket failure rate is:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17d7wa6/flir...

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#250

Post by rasz »

locallost wrote: post #242
rasz wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So pictures taken by Hamas and journalists are no evidence for you of continued existence of the Church. How about video feed from the jet dropping the bomb? From Greek Orthodox source no less: https://twitter.com/greekcitytimes/status/171550351226695719...

I said they bombed a church. You said I should reconsider my sources. My source was Reuters, quoting the Church representatives, saying: "...was hit overnight by an Israeli air strike". In no shape or form was it anywhere implied that the church no longer exists, just that it was bombed. The quote from a non-hamas source in a respectable news source confirms it was hit. That you're poorly attempting to make some kind…

You take someones word over photographic and video evidence corroborated by multiple parties?

"Hey, someone burned down my car last night! Its standing over there, the one with minor smoke damage two cars over from the wreck of actually burned car."

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