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It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

natesilver.net

201–210 of 258 posts

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> News organisations can't be expected to verify every claim. I thought this was the defining characteristic, that set them apart from gossipmongers and fools. Yes, I not only can expect that, I think I should.

You should expect that. For non-breaking news. But when you are asking a journalist to report on an event minutes to hours after it happened then obviously they will have limited time to validate a claim. Especially in a war-zone where their ability to operate is limited. It's not really possible to be fast and thorough at the same time.

> But when you are asking a journalist to report on an event minutes to hours after it happened

I don't ask this. Some push that stuff hard, because it gets ratings, or whatever the equivalent is now that we're a few decades post-broadcast-tv.

Of course, it doesn't get ratings so much as it draws from a bank of integrity that journalism squirreled away through great effort and frustration for over a century, and once they've spent all that, there will be nothing left. Hell, the account's probably been overdrawn for awhile now. And it's as if no one even noticed.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope that we learn that narratives will sooner or later turn against us if we sacrifice truth for narratives. NYT and WaPo and what not may enjoy their "progressive" narratives now, but the party will not go on forever. Truth matters.

The NYT article persuasively shows the evidence that the PIJ fired the rocket. That's not the far-left narrative.

The evidence is laid out, but the narrative alongside it is “gosh with dozens of pieces of evidence supporting one version of events and zero supporting the other, it’s a close call, we’ll never know what happened!”.

That’s not to say that we should jump to conclusions but the initial assumption that Hamas’ claim was truthful is ridiculous. NYT would not publish any claim Trump makes with so little scrutiny.

It’s really a tragedy that both sides of the media spectrum have now been captured by politics.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you’re being forthright about your biases, it’s only fair I do the same. My words were harsh because I feel that the original sentiment I objected to is precisely the kind of sentiment those who would continue perpetrating the genocide against Palestinians would like to engender among the public. The sentiment for those who are too busy or too distracted to look beyond a superficial level and just read headline…

Thanks for replying in length and with sincerity. I'm not going to address everything in your comment not because it isn't worthy of a response but because I personally don't have a response that is substantive and thoughtful. If anyone else wants to reply they're welcome to. In any case I'm not a spokesperson for my country. I'll say two things: 0. "Human animals" bothers me - I disapprove of the extreme language I'…

I appreciate your sincerity as well. And I agree, I think we understand each other.

As you said, regular people can only speak for ourselves, I’d never expect you to answer on behalf of your entire country. I hope you and yours stay safe and we both get to see a just peace someday, hopefully soon.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Don’t you think that pointing out that a person of Jewish ethnicity taking the side of the IDF in killing 1,000 Palestinian kids and counting would have helped with the discussion? And what’s the point of bringing in the subject of the German State killing Jewish children in Europe during WW2. If anything, that should stopped the current Israeli citizens from killing those Palestinian children. Apparently it didn’t.…

> killing 1,000 Palestinian kids and counting The only reason Palestinian children die is because Hamas hides among the population. They have ammo dumps beneath schools and fire rockets from residential neighborhoods. Israel has every right to vigorously defend it's citizens by engaging with Hamas, the terrorist organization that has lobbed several thousand rockets at its civilians over the last week.

Don't for a second try to equate the horrific deaths of children accidentally caught in a war to those children who are murdered in cold blood by militants.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#205
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis do you believe the explosion was more likely to be Israeli than Hamas? From what I've been able to glean it seems like the exact opposite. 1. Hamas is extremely willing to sacrifice their own people in pursuit of their goals. 2. Hamas was making homemade rockets out of water pipe. Far less reliable than Israeli munitions. 3. Isreal has demonstrated over and over that they will bend over backwards to min…

>On what basis do you believe the explosion was more likely to be Israeli than Hamas? First, you'll notice I never actually said this. >1. Hamas is extremely willing to sacrifice their own people in pursuit of their goals. Not even Israel claims it was Hamas intentionally bombing the parking lot. >2. Hamas was making homemade rockets out of water pipe. Far less reliable than Israeli munitions. Sure, but not sure the…

>3. Isreal has demonstrated over and over that they will bend over backwards to minimize civilian casualties

> I do not believe this is true.

You must be living in a bubble. Roof knocks, pamphlets, phone calls etc. They do everything they can to remove civilians before their strikes. Additionally, use your common sense, what is the benefit to the IDF of civilians dying vs the benefit to Hamas.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don’t have a dog in the fight and have been a long time NYT subscriber but I concur with Nate on this one. This is so, so untrue, and it makes me sad to read this. Your dog is the one dying of self-inflicted wounds, and everyone would be better off if it would stop. Everyone benefits when reliable information sources exist, they report on a wide portfolio of events under that reliable letterhead, and we know where…

That is well said. I added that first phrase in an effort to create space for my comment to exist apart from whatever my own politics and opinion might be. But you are correct. The failure of news institutions is bad for everyone. Pretending the scales are balanced when they aren't works against the goal of collective sense-making. It seems some number of organizations and people have lost the plot, concluding that "…

moderates / reasonable people keeping quiet is the reason we got into this collective problem in the first place.

not to pressure OP, it's an understandable point of view. but it's time for reasonable people to speak up.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The video had the wrong timestamps There was live stream from Al-Jazeera showing the failed rocket at the correct timestamp. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-h... > and the voice recordings were alleged to be faked By who? The article just leads to a tweet with no citations from any experts.

> By who? "Hamas said so", that's who. I'm gonna start using this phrase as an idiom, whenever a citation is missing.

[deleted]

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#208
A lot of people have built the idea of being "right" so deeply into their identity that admitting they are wrong is unthinkable and traumatizing. They weave a narrative about how they were really right in some way.

Normally, people have been wrong so many times in their life that they learn to admit it, learn, and move on. Only if you are highly insulated from objective reality can you maintain some idea that being "right" is one of your qualities.

Where is such insulation from reality happening? College is the most obvious answer. Rather than being a place to be challenged intellectually, it has become a place to learn the current politically-correct perspectives and have them reinforced constantly.

I have no idea why someone at the NYT was not more skeptical of an official from one of the parties involved in the conflict. But once the headline goes out, they are "right" and that will never change.

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#209

How can we explain that WaPo used the term "detained" to describe Hamas kidnapping children? I thought a published article would go through reviews by editors and fellow reporters? I'm not sure how that can be explained as "screw up on breaking news".

And then stealth edited when they were called out [1].

[1] https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2023/10/20/wait-that...

Re: It's easy to screw up on breaking news but you have to admit when you do

#210

The reason everyone believed it was Israel is because they do it all the time. Today they bombed a church. I find it funny (as long as you ignore that these events involve dead people) that Silver here is up in arms for an alleged misattribution when it happens otherwise every day and nobody is bothered. A novel thought: maybe stop bombing civilians and the chance of you unjustly being accused of bombing civilians go…

> Today they bombed a church

“says Palestinian Officials”.

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