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Early Europeans ate seaweed for thousands of years

smithsonianmag.com

211–220 of 268 posts

Re: Early Europeans ate seaweed for thousands of years

#211

Seaweed is one of those incredibly delicious items[1] that for some strange reason isn't more popular. I'd love it if it became more common, and more cuisines (outside Japan) incorporated it into their existing dishes. I'm imagining like an Indian curry with seaweed mixed in, or an Italian pasta with seaweed mixed in (in addition to existing ingredients)..... [1] if you buy it from a good brand, so YMMV.

My mostly-uninformed hypothesis is that seaweed’s relative lack of popularity outside of East Asia stems from the industrialization timeline of Asia vs eg Europe. People in Europe could and did farm seaweed, but with the technology of the mid 19th century it was not possible to do so in a mechanized way, while they did have the technology to produce grains, get wild fish, and farm animals in a mechanized way. The dou…

You're probably mostly right. There was a different type poverty back then.

These days owning your own home is a dream, but you can walk into a supermarket and buy things that my father wouldn't have dreamt of as a child. Cooked chickens? Every type of fresh fruit and vegetable from all parts of the globe? A frozen food section? Jesus. Remember that video of Yeltsin in the US supermarket?

My father is 96. He grew up in rural Ireland, and his family's lifestyle probably didn't differ much from that of his great grandparents. No cars, electricity, running water, tv, phones. That was "normal". Even the poor families in our part of the world owned their own house and a plot of land. Daily bread was the big issue! Even wealthy locals wouldn't be wasteful with food, and nobody had heard of an avocado. On a daily basis they collected water from a well, chopped wood and collected kindling from around the local woods to keep the stove constantly lit. They milked their own cows, churned butter and cream. He remembers walking the beach with a bucket, collecting periwinkles, and wandering the fields looking for mushrooms when they were in season. He collecting hazelnuts, sloes, damsons and berries from the hedgerow. They kept chickens. They bartered eggs and butter for pork, flour and oats. And yes, they would also go to the local shop to buy tea, sugar, cloth, shoes, materials to repair everything, coal etc. Pots and pans were handed down through generations or given as wedding gifts. Perhaps only a bunch of times every year would they make a trip into the big town to buy clothes and shoes, or replace work out necessities. But even his clothes were sparse, and worn until they practically fell off him. Everything was repaired over and over. I'd say practically none of his calories were imported, pre-cooked or packaged. Today, almost all of it is. Nobody needs to forage to survive any more.

When he told me how hard life was back in the first half of the 1900s, he said "We weren't even poor by local standards! My mother was a cook for a wealthy household and knew how to make the most of whatever was available, and she could sew. My father had a good job on the railway, and had an interest in growing vegetables. Plus his extra uniforms (which came with the job as a railway guard) provided good quality material for children's clothes! Other children in my school though we were well off!"

Re: Early Europeans ate seaweed for thousands of years

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in Italian pasta with seaweed mixed All the rage at Italian/Japanese fusion joints (and honestly in Japan too - Japan loves pasta)

> All the rage at Italian/Japanese fusion joints Im going to take a wild guess and say this is not in Italy.

I'm from Naples, in the south of Italy and, while pasta with seaweed is indeed not existing here (I can't even imagine why you should do that to pasta), fritter with seaweed are common, here --> cfr. https://blog.giallozafferano.it/studentiaifornelli/zeppoline...

Re: Early Europeans ate seaweed for thousands of years

#213

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> It's the consequence of the food industry becoming hyperindustrialized in which uncommon ingredients and "off-cuts" no longer fit with the goal of pursuing economy of scale. Ultraprocessed food is efficient to produce and distribute and formulated to specifically target innate human cravings (high sugar/sodium/carb/fat) in ways that were not possible before. Hyperindustrialization has done the exact opposite! The m…

Why do you think people in North America no longer see offal (or seaweed) as edible food for humans despite the opposite? It's because of hyperindustrialization has distorted how these people view food ingredients.

What are you talking about? Tripe is a bog standard ingredient in Mexican cuisine seen on every menu from the southern tip of Mexico to Toronto. It’s the basis for sausages and hot dogs, an American staple. You can buy offal at almost any supermarket. Why would they carry it if people in North America didn’t see it as food?

The reason most Americans don’t eat it is better options. Like rib eye steak and a salad.

You can also buy multiple forms of seaweed at Costco and Walmart. That’s about as North American as it gets.

Re: Early Europeans ate seaweed for thousands of years

#214
post #200

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How do you know that "ancient people" never thought of animals as having feelings? Seems an extraordinarily broad claim given all the cultures and ages that encompass "ancient people"

Because I read some of their writings? The concept of a "Pet" was foreign to them. Animals - even dogs, were there to work. The concept of how an animal was feeling simply didn't occur to them. An animal was a tool, and you took good care of the tool, but not because of the tool, but because then it was more useful. It was the 18th century when animal rights started becoming a thing, which exactly corresponds with th…

Buddhism even back then 2500 years ago was very conscious of all that.

Re: Early Europeans ate seaweed for thousands of years

#215

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According to WHO estimates [1], a quarter of Africans have goiters so I think it's safe to say that archaic humans suffered from chronic iodine deficiency. Evolution works through reproduction so any condition that doesn't impact survival until sexual maturity is unlikely to face any evolutionary pressure. Since humans are tribal and took care of their offspring in group settings, survivability after procreation also…

> any condition that doesn't impact survival until sexual maturity Diseases that impact even just appearance can surely make you less attractive as a mate though. And larger goiters can impede breathing or swallowing. So I'd be suspicious of the idea that we've been significantly deficient in iodine for extended periods of our evolutionary history.

Large goiters are rare and the vast majority are not outwardly visible nor do they impact breathing.

I’d be far more suspicious of applying modern standards of beauty to humans that lived hundreds of thousands of years ago.

Re: Early Europeans ate seaweed for thousands of years

#216

Some of us still do! In Northern Ireland, we have a lesser-known seaweed dish called Dulce. https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20180522-the-renaissance-... It's tricky to find it fresh, you usually only get it in small greengrocers or at the Auld Lammas fair. Used to be quite cheap for a bag. Very salty but quite edible and said to be nutrient-dense.

> Some of us still do! It's tricky to find it fresh, you usually only get it in small greengrocers or at the Auld Lammas fair. Used to be quite cheap for a bag. Very salty but quite edible and said to be nutrient-dense.

I had some potatoes from the Island of Jersey when I was working in kitchens in London, they were incredibly good and paired well with seafood dishes: I had to do some research on a dish my Sous had asked me to create with them and I found out why they were so well matched.

Turns out the Isle of Jersey is often covered in seaweed [0], and they use it extensively in the cultivation of it's potatoes. So even indirectly they are eaten even though things like wakame and kombu are not common outside of fine-dining in London they are still a main-stay of the British diet, well if you Jersey Royals at least.

0: https://jerseyroyals.co.uk/about-us/

Re: Early Europeans ate seaweed for thousands of years

#217
post #137

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Interestingly the Netherlands is actually one of the biggest markets for vegan cheese altnernatives. Many people here, even if they aren't vegan, try to limit their reliance on animal products for health, climate related or other moral reasons.

Moving here from London was a shock: I thought London was one of the better places for vegetarian food, I wasn’t prepared for the huge selection of vegan alternatives in everyday Dutch supermarkets

> Moving here from London was a shock: I thought London was one of the better places for vegetarian food, I wasn’t prepared for the huge selection of vegan alternatives in everyday Dutch supermarkets

They are often the source for lots of Asian ingredients in mainland Europe, while I was in the UK we sourced lots of things like umeboshi and miso from Holland; to my surprise being from CA with lots of access to Japanese/Chinese/Korean ingredients I found lots of the Dutch stuff to be really good.

I'm not sure if that has to do their with relationship (and desire for it's food) with Japan during the isolation period, but there were lots of Japanese products in a biodyanmic farm/shop I worked at in Germany too.

Sadly, it was rather limited in scope because they are the main exporters of conventional food in the EU for a reason.

Re: Early Europeans ate seaweed for thousands of years

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, I clicked on comment to be the token Northern Irishman bringing this up, but you beat me to it! I didn't know seaweed wasn't a common food until I moved to the Netherlands and started enquiring about the local seaweed, only to be met with blank looks or people pointing me to the sushi nori at Albert Heijn. I've been here for years and I still don't understand how such a seafaring nation with such an intimate co…

Cheese and milk products in general are popular because it keeps well in winter, and large swathes of the country would get flooded on occasion; only grass would survive, which cows eat, and cows produce milk. Hard to build underground cold storage as well in case of flooding or just a high water table. Cheese will save us all.

[deleted]

Re: Early Europeans ate seaweed for thousands of years

#219

Some of us still do! In Northern Ireland, we have a lesser-known seaweed dish called Dulce. https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20180522-the-renaissance-... It's tricky to find it fresh, you usually only get it in small greengrocers or at the Auld Lammas fair. Used to be quite cheap for a bag. Very salty but quite edible and said to be nutrient-dense.

Kind of funny it's salty but it's called dulce/dulse (Spanish for 'sweet'). I'd love to know the pronunciation for 'Duileasg'

In romanian it's the same; but it can also mean "fresh" in the context of dairy. It's the same in Spanish?
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