Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security • Hacker News Board

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#591

Post by lobf » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 6:25 PM UTC

bryans wrote: post #437

lobf wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your interest is harm reduction, then you should be focused on reducing the number of handguns in circulation. You should also consider looking in to the data about what actually happens to your chances of being shot once you buy a gun. It’s pretty stunning.

When it comes to drug abuse, harm reduction can mean providing clean needles and other supplies to the user. The person isn't going to stop just because they're denied clean supplies. In the same way that you can't stop people from acquiring guns, but you can help prevent them from purchasing guns that are fundamentally unsafe to operate.

You absolutely can stop people from acquiring guns. Most western democracies do this very effectively. That should be our focus.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#592

Post by Kerb_ » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 7:35 PM UTC

lobf wrote: post #590

Kerb_ wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were a group of local teenagers and young adults with a shitty little clubhouse along a trail in the woods with some swastikas painted on it. They tried to corner me and my friends with what ended up being air guns with painted tips (since I wasn't into firearms at the time I completely thought they were real) because they thought we got too close to it. They probably weren't part of any organized nazi gang, but…

You think pointing a gun back would have made you safer in those situations? Because it seems like you survived quite fine without one…

We should just stop having the police cus I survived just fine without them.

At least having the option to defend myself would make me more comfortable standing in front of my friends trying to take a bullet for them. Made it easier to recover getting sexually assaulted knowing I could forcefully stop him if it truly escalated to a point where I had to.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#593

Post by mcpackieh » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:11 PM UTC

arp242 wrote: post #557

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One theory I read is that Floyd and Chauvin were part of the same counterfeiting ring operating out of that club, and Chauvin murdered Floyd in order to keep him quiet. (Recall that Floyd was originally arrested for suspected use of a counterfeit $20 bill.) I think maybe part of the idea was that nightclubs are interesting to counterfeiters because they deal with so much cash. (Racism still plays a big part in the Fl…

Chauvin was obviously in the wrong from pretty much every angle, but the chances of the a person actually dying under those circumstances are actually fairly small. If it was an intentional pre-meditated murder then it was either an incredibly piss-poor plan or some 4D chess master move. That said, it's certainly possible he simply wanted to be a dick to Floyd, possibly just for incredibly petty personal reasons, or…

> If it was an intentional pre-meditated murder

From what I understand he was convicted for second degree murder, specifically "unintentional second-degree murder while attempting to commit felony assault". So he may not have intended for George Floyd to die, but he did intentionally assault George Floyd who died as a result. So that's not intentional premeditated murder, but it's nevertheless a form of murder.

(He was also simultaneously convicted for third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter, but not first-degree murder.)

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#594

Post by rovolo » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

kwere wrote: post #558

rovolo wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"White male, age 17–25" is an entire trait. "Homosexual" is a *part* of a trait: "Alcoholism, childhood hyperactivity, homosexuality, depression, borderline personality disorder, and suicidal tendencies". It's significant because of the other descriptors it's grouped with in that trait. It would be weird to have "homosexual" as a trait on its own, but it's obviously weird to group it with these other descriptors in a…

doesnt that sound like looking for [generic loser] to pin down and move onto other cases?

This report [1] is specific to "Firefighter Arson", so they're looking for things to screen for during hiring for firefighters. The section you'll be interested in is on page 20: "PREVENTION OF FIREFIGHTER ARSON". They list some actions departments have taken: background checks for arson; requiring an affidavit the applicant hasn't conducted arson; "scared straight" lectures on the consequences of being jailed; and screening firefighters with a questionnaire.

But yeah, the profiling section some sound like a way to pathologize arson. I found the motivation section and case studies more interesting. The only corroboration from the case studies is for the age; there's no evidence included for the personality traits.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20190811142354/https://www.usfa....

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#595

Post by datavirtue » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 11:49 PM UTC

boppo1 wrote: post #560

datavirtue wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I used to live in an area that was overrun with a biker gang and had friends who had slight involvement with them and ended up getting intimidated into giving them their nicer positions like furniture and TVs. Classic bully shit but a grown adult coming into your house and taking your shit. I had a retail shop in the community and also lived next to a bar and a property where they would congregate and some woul…

>When I first moved there I had no idea that it was like this. What advice would you give someone moving to an unfamiliar area to avoid this?

No idea. However, this area is a lower income blue collar country area on the edge of a really nice suburban area, but it certainly isn't without VERY nice homes and farms. It's just hard to say. Lots of drug issues, you get these pockets. I have lived around the area for my entire life but it wasn't until I got involved as a merchant in the area and really got to know people that it escalated like this. Having a small business of just about any kind will expose you to nearly everyone in a smallish town. Lots of drama can come of that.

I got robbed several times while I was there and I ended up in jail myself. Most of this stemmed from drama emenanting out of the opioid and heroine epidemic around the early 2000s.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#596

Post by datavirtue » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 11:54 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #580

boppo1 wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When I first moved there I had no idea that it was like this. What advice would you give someone moving to an unfamiliar area to avoid this?

Maybe first check if the area is ruled by gangs.

No way to tell. Everything looked normal.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#597

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 11:55 PM UTC

Hiring off duty cops used to be a thing in Seattle when I was working at Crackdonalds (3rd and Pine McDonalds) in 94-95 (we had one or two cops working at all times to keep the lobby/dining area sane). But these days they aren't allowed to do that or the cops have become too expensive, I'm not really sure. They can only off duty for sporting events here for some reasons.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#598

Post by lobf » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 12:28 AM UTC

Kerb_ wrote: post #592

lobf wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think pointing a gun back would have made you safer in those situations? Because it seems like you survived quite fine without one…

We should just stop having the police cus I survived just fine without them. At least having the option to defend myself would make me more comfortable standing in front of my friends trying to take a bullet for them. Made it easier to recover getting sexually assaulted knowing I could forcefully stop him if it truly escalated to a point where I had to.

The police pretty much never prevent crime, they investigate it after it happens. Robberies aren’t stopped by heroic police officers with their guns, despite what TV says.

And I’m not asking what would make you feel better, I’m asking if you truly believe that producing a gun in the situations you described would have made you safer?

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#599

Post by Turskarama » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 1:08 AM UTC

jackskell wrote: post #584

mcv wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole notion of using a gun for self-defense sounds insane to me. The criminal is the one starting the violent interaction and is therefore prepared for it, probably has their gun ready or within easy reach. For me to then want to draw my gun sounds like a recipe to get shot. Being not a threat to a dangerous idiot and getting out alive sounds far preferable to me than dying like a wannabe John Wayne. Everybody b…

The United States was founded with the principle that (from a legal sense) the primacy of power and responsibility belonged to individuals, not government. The lack of connectivity between different societal groups allowed relatively peaceful interactions between groups, (unless you were a Native American or a slave, sadly). From this framework, people (men, largely) were expected to provide for themselves and their…

That's a lot of great theory but the stats just don't play out, an armed society does not in practice make a polite society.

Americans seem to not believe me when I say my fear of being shot is zero, but it's literally true. I don't even recall if I've ever even heard a gunshot outside the vicinity of a firing range.

There are some criminals with guns, but they almost exclusively use them against other criminals. I have zero concern that someone breaking into my house will have a gun, and everyone I know who has ever actually spotted someone breaking in to a place has had the criminal run away immediately rather than initiate any kind of violence.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#600

Post by ChainOfFools » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:19 AM UTC

adammarples wrote: post #549

hellojesus wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a saying, "An armed society is a polite society." The reason is because of perceived threat. If very few people are armed, people are more likely to act a fool because they don't fear the consequences from npcs. Risk taking along these lines increases as does the physical delta. But as the probability of random npc folks carrying approaches one, suddenly there is a very real chance that acting a fool carries…

And as usual Americans fail to spot that they have one of the best armed and least polite societies in the world. I'd put the case that a polite society is unarmed.

> I'd put the case that a polite society is unarmed

The supreme irony lies in the fact that this statement is completely reversed from the real state of things: it is a pathologically impolite society that feels it necessary to arm itself, against itself. Unhealthy tolerance and passivity toward mundane, petty assholery and dominance-seeking behavior is going to destroy this country.