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Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

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Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#61
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which one?

I didn't watch a lot of House MD but I believe I know what's being referred to. There was an arc where House was administered ketamine as part of a treatment for his leg and he started walking without his cane, suggesting that his condition was being caused by psychological trauma long after his leg had physically recovered.

I vaguely remember this. thanks.

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#62

Beyond the importance of controlling the placebo effect, I am worried that a lot of the drug-depression research is overlooking an important possibility: that the thing about ketamine/psilocybin/etc that is helping with depression is not some latent property of the molecule, but rather the actual transcendent experience of the trip. In other words, the trip is the point, not the mechanistic neuro-tinkering [0]. Impor…

Tom Wolfe, in "Sorry, But Your Soul Just Died", Forbes Magazine, 1996 http://www.psy.vanderbilt.edu/courses/psy115w/Fall02/TomWolf...

Which brings us to the second most famous statement in all of modern philosophy: Nietzsche's "God is dead." The year was 1882. (The book was Die Frohliche Wissenschaft [ The Gay Science ].) Nietzsche said this was not a declaration of atheism, although he was in fact an atheist, but simply the news of an event. He called the death of God a "tremendous event," the greatest event of modern history. The news was that educated people no longer believed in God, as a result of the rise of rationalism and scientific thought, including Darwinism, over the preceding 250 years. But before you atheists run up your flags of triumph, he said, think of the implications. "The story I have to tell," wrote Nietzsche, "is the history of the next two centuries." He predicted (in Ecce Homo ) that the twentieth century would be a century of "wars such as have never happened on earth," wars catastrophic beyond all imagining. And why? Because human beings would no longer have a god to turn to, to absolve them of their guilt; but they would still be racked by guilt, since guilt is an impulse instilled in children when they are very young, before the age of reason. As a result, people would loathe not only one another but themselves. The blind and reassuring faith they formerly poured into their belief in God, said Nietzsche, they would now pour into a belief in barbaric nationalistic brotherhoods: "If the doctrines...of the lack of any cardinal distinction between man and animal, doctrines I consider true but deadly"--he says in an allusion to Darwinism in Untimely Meditations --"are hurled into the people for another generation...then nobody should be surprised when...brotherhoods with the aim of the robbery and exploitation of the non-brothers...will appear in the arena of the future...

Nietzsche said that mankind would limp on through the twentieth century "on the mere pittance" of the old decaying God-based moral codes. But then, in the twenty-first, would come a period more dreadful than the great wars, a time of "the total eclipse of all values" (in The Will to Power ). This would also be a frantic period of "revaluation," in which people would try to find new systems of values to replace the osteoporotic skeletons of the old. But you will fail, he warned, because you cannot believe in moral codes without simultaneously believing in a god who points at you with his fearsome forefinger and says "Thou shalt" or "Thou shalt not."

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#63

I'm more interested in the effects of Ketamine on anxiety. I know that it's not as effective, but haven't seen any statistics specifically related to anxiety. I have gotten my Ketamine through Mindbloom, and just need to schedule my treatment and follow up dates. My depression effects are due to my suffering through anxiety for over 20 years (started in 1999). My anxiety also seemed to correlate with 2 bad trips from…

They will give Ketamine and benzos together as K can cause anxiety symptoms (or terror with a K-hole).

I actually take a benzo only as needed, and try not to take it if I can absolutely help it. I was told that taking a benzo(diazepine) the day of a Ketamine treatment actually cancels out the positive effect of the Ketamine. I believe it as well. Benzodiazepines definitely have a beneficial effect, but if you are trying to get through a psychedelic crisis, or even a horrible panic attack, taking it will 100% negate any kind of benefit you would get by pushing through the uncomfortable negativity. I'm speaking from personal experience, but I feel Benzos cancel out anything positive from learning in regards to a psychically negative experience. Sometimes your anxiety is so bad you need them, I know I have been in that place where I'm responsible for another person, and can't deal with the anxiety and still help this other person. I'm also terrified as I've heard Benzos increase the odds of getting Alzheimer's by something like >80%. I have Alzheimer's on my dad's grandmother's side, and my mom's father's side. Unless it skips a generation, and favors mother's or father's side, and the side it skips works out, I'm screwed!

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#64

Beyond the importance of controlling the placebo effect, I am worried that a lot of the drug-depression research is overlooking an important possibility: that the thing about ketamine/psilocybin/etc that is helping with depression is not some latent property of the molecule, but rather the actual transcendent experience of the trip. In other words, the trip is the point, not the mechanistic neuro-tinkering [0]. Impor…

Tom Wolfe, in "Sorry, But Your Soul Just Died", Forbes Magazine, 1996 http://www.psy.vanderbilt.edu/courses/psy115w/Fall02/TomWolf... Which brings us to the second most famous statement in all of modern philosophy: Nietzsche's "God is dead." The year was 1882. (The book was Die Frohliche Wissenschaft [ The Gay Science ].) Nietzsche said this was not a declaration of atheism, although he was in fact an atheist, but si…

[deleted]

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#65

Beyond the importance of controlling the placebo effect, I am worried that a lot of the drug-depression research is overlooking an important possibility: that the thing about ketamine/psilocybin/etc that is helping with depression is not some latent property of the molecule, but rather the actual transcendent experience of the trip. In other words, the trip is the point, not the mechanistic neuro-tinkering [0]. Impor…

Tom Wolfe, in "Sorry, But Your Soul Just Died", Forbes Magazine, 1996 http://www.psy.vanderbilt.edu/courses/psy115w/Fall02/TomWolf... Which brings us to the second most famous statement in all of modern philosophy: Nietzsche's "God is dead." The year was 1882. (The book was Die Frohliche Wissenschaft [ The Gay Science ].) Nietzsche said this was not a declaration of atheism, although he was in fact an atheist, but si…

That Tom Wolfe piece was a great read. Thank you.

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a late-stage capitalism world, where the climate is collapsing, and homes are unaffordable, where does hope come from?

This doesn't get said nearly enough. Social media is also to blame. I know one person who got upset about his credit score (low 700s) from watching videos about it and then kept consuming information until he was seriously depressed about his (good) finances. When I was in my twenties and early thirties, I never worried about any of this at all.

I couldn't imagine worrying about it, but maybe it's because I think I'm doing fine. Credit score is such a strange game to me.

Closed a loan? That costs me points, somehow.

Dad got a new cell phone and they ran the wrong person's credit? That cost me points too, because clearly their screw up was my fault. Hope he was still approved.

I rent and the cars are old. Sometimes I feel like I play on hard mode by having a $3000 VISA as my only debt.

If I make a $2000 purchase, they report it Tuesday, I pay that back to them Thursday, and I check my score? Woah, dropped 80 points! What a delinquent!

That might have become more of a rant than I intended. I should probably just apply for more credit stop the large points changes like this.

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#67
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not silly at all. Like the other guy who posted, connecting back to "life" is pretty important. My family committed to this at a very extreme level in 2020 and we fulfilled it in April 2021. Our lives have been changed for the better in so many ways!

Wait are y'all the folks who moved together cross-country so you could be neighbors with your siblings?

No we bought a property surrounded by national forest and grow/raise our own food, raise horses, etc.

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#68
post #54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An admittedly anecdotal set of my encounters with people who take or have taken anti-depressants is most are on changing set of prescriptions because nothing works continuously and a high percentage of them are ones which no anti-depressant drug worked and were fixed by a different diagnoses for something like adhd. An alternative explanation for this is that if you keep giving people different drugs and different di…

Well except the changing of drugs is usually because they are not feeling better or are feeling worse.

Well sure, but I don't see how that contradicts anything I said.

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will give Ketamine and benzos together as K can cause anxiety symptoms (or terror with a K-hole).

I actually take a benzo only as needed, and try not to take it if I can absolutely help it. I was told that taking a benzo(diazepine) the day of a Ketamine treatment actually cancels out the positive effect of the Ketamine. I believe it as well. Benzodiazepines definitely have a beneficial effect, but if you are trying to get through a psychedelic crisis, or even a horrible panic attack, taking it will 100% negate an…

It would be administered in the IV immediately before a Ketamine IV. It does not cancel out the effect, but you might fall asleep during treatment which isn’t as fun.

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#70

Beyond the importance of controlling the placebo effect, I am worried that a lot of the drug-depression research is overlooking an important possibility: that the thing about ketamine/psilocybin/etc that is helping with depression is not some latent property of the molecule, but rather the actual transcendent experience of the trip. In other words, the trip is the point, not the mechanistic neuro-tinkering [0]. Impor…

I find this... frustrating to read, at the least. This post assumes that all depression is a _lack_ of something external to the body. Or that depression is simply a chemical imbalance. It takes no accounting of physical deficiencies that can _never_ be cured and require a lifetime of maintenance, of which Ketamine can be (literally) lifesaving.

The post is irresponsible. No one should be thinking that some sort of "transcendence" will solve their issue, or that is what their problem is.

Always discuss treatment with a psychiatrist.

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