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13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

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Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#171

Post by tpmoney »

kristopolous wrote: post #123
gumby wrote: post #69

I love the quote from the Intuit VP, which complained that it would end up “costing billions of dollars in taxpayer money.” The current system costs billions of dollars in taxpayer money, it’s just that today those dollars flow to Intuit. The IRS one should end up costing less overall, even at govt contracting rates.

Why is that person's comments even included? It'd be like reaching out to Charles Ponzi for a quote on business regulation

Because proper journalism should allow all voices to have their say. If you wanted a one sided view on something, you wouldn’t need journalists, the press releases and self reported (and self serving) statements by interested parties would be plenty.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#172

Post by bigstrat2003 »

hedora wrote: post #121
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard agree with this. Filling out your taxes by hand is actually very easy if all you have is the basics (which is most people). When I was doing my taxes for the first couple of years as an adult, I did it by hand and was pleasantly surprised how easy it was. The instructions are very clear and to the point.

Did you go to college? I had a job on campus and a stipend, and that immediately tossed me into the deep end of “the tax code is actually ambiguous and the difference is three months rent”.

I did, although I wasn't in college at the time I started doing my taxes. I was a dependent on my parents' taxes while I was in college.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#173

Post by gumby »

tpmoney wrote: post #171
kristopolous wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that person's comments even included? It'd be like reaching out to Charles Ponzi for a quote on business regulation

Because proper journalism should allow all voices to have their say. If you wanted a one sided view on something, you wouldn’t need journalists, the press releases and self reported (and self serving) statements by interested parties would be plenty.

In general I agree with your position. But for cases like this, these kinds of statements have been so common from H&R Block and Intuit, and the topic has been wending its way through the system for a couple of decades that if you were a journalist short of time it would be fine to quote some other public statement from either of them.

The actual article is about something more interesting: that they are piloting it with states that have state income taxes as well, and that they will be rolling it out in phases (the right thing to do). The response to Intuit isn't about the meat of the topic.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#174

Post by thfuran »

flandish wrote: post #83
hiatus wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Buy an EV? It’s in a db I don't expect car purchases to be in a federal database (or the schools my children attend, for that matter).

You don’t expect it, but it is. And all I am saying is that I’m not surprised it isn't already “part of the process.” Just because it’s not part of our filing process doesn’t mean the data and its relationships don’t exist. Heck, I’m the first to say 99% of this should not exist in the first place. (That means I think the nation state concept should not exist.. there should be none.) But be honest with yourself: you…

Meaning what, just municipal governments, or are those bad too?

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#175

Post by pclmulqdq »

JohnFen wrote: post #153
ghaff wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to think that even if the IRS were to send me some numbers, I'd still spend an hour or so checking them against my own information.

I know that I wouldn't, because I don't want to. I'd just pay the amount the IRS says I should pay and call it good. I'd probably be paying more tax than absolutely necessary, but I honestly wouldn't mind that at all -- especially because I'd be saving money over doing the taxes myself (in the sense of time == money) or paying someone else to do them for me.

I mean, if the IRS was wrong about your income and you got audited, you would probably still be on the hook for penalties and back taxes. You're still going to want to spend some time checking that tax form pretty thoroughly.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#176

Post by thfuran »

ghaff wrote: post #110
thfuran wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and it will take at most an hour or so. And that's absolutely insane. That's tens of millions of man hours per year spent essentially on rote data entry of data that the IRS already has so that you can submit it to the IRS for them to check against their copy.

I would like to think that even if the IRS were to send me some numbers, I'd still spend an hour or so checking them against my own information.

It shouldn't take nearly as long to verify if it's presented at all reasonably.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#177

Post by pclmulqdq »

xnorswap wrote: post #160
pclmulqdq wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people who complain about the complexity of the US tax code and the "need" for TurboTax would benefit from directly filling out the 1040 by hand one year - most of them would have a pretty easy time doing it. For most people, all you need is a 4-function calculator, your W-2s/1099s, and a pencil, and it will take at most an hour or so. Where the IRS's UX is really bad for the average taxpayer is all…

I appreciate what you're trying to say, but: This is a direct quote from 1040: > 14 Add lines 12 and 13 > 15 Subtract line 14 from line 11. Compared to a real system, that is insane. You have to deliberately enter redundant information onto a form that should be handled automatically by a computer. It feels like the only purpose is to catch you out in case you make a mistake. Furthermore, the system should be set up…

You presumably own a calculator. Those questions are quite simple with one.

There's also an online spreadsheet version so a computer can do all the math for you without paying a dime to intuit.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#178

Post by hooverd »

comte7092 wrote: post #116
gumby wrote: post #69

I love the quote from the Intuit VP, which complained that it would end up “costing billions of dollars in taxpayer money.” The current system costs billions of dollars in taxpayer money, it’s just that today those dollars flow to Intuit. The IRS one should end up costing less overall, even at govt contracting rates.

That’s just the classic anti public sector service line in general. Whatever your feelings are about single payer healthcare, it’s incredibly disingenuous when politicians debate against it by bringing up the cost of such a system, without comparing it to the current cost of the private system it would replace.

I hope the IRS is building in-house competency for this project. So much public sector inefficiency is because we farm out projects to the consultant industrial complex.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#179

Post by [deleted] »

tpmoney wrote: post #171
kristopolous wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that person's comments even included? It'd be like reaching out to Charles Ponzi for a quote on business regulation

Because proper journalism should allow all voices to have their say. If you wanted a one sided view on something, you wouldn’t need journalists, the press releases and self reported (and self serving) statements by interested parties would be plenty.

[deleted]

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#180

Post by onetimeusename »

naasking wrote: post #145
onetimeusename wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is deliberately made difficult as a backdoor way to raise more money through penalties and interest fees. Additionally, since the odds are so high that the average person making above $200K has made an error, it can be used as blackmail. On a global scale, complex taxes are actually not uncommon and the US fares well. I'd like to see a comparison of government corruption with tax complexity. For example, i…

> I think it is deliberately made difficult as a backdoor way to raise more money through penalties and interest fees. No, you have it backwards. Politicians don't want to make it difficult, they want a simple, stable revenue stream. But in the attempt to do so, commercial interests carve out convoluted exceptions for themselves to preserve revenue and make it more difficult for incumbents to challenge them. The lobb…

> they want a simple, stable revenue stream

I don't buy this. The IRS collected tens of billions in just one year in civil penalties. https://www.irs.gov/statistics/collections-activities-penalt.... Politicians asked for more money for the IRS to increase revenue. I don't buy that this is because all that revenue is from criminal cases especially if lobbying can easily change the tax code.

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