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13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

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Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#161

Post by gumby »

justinzollars wrote: post #125
comte7092 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just the classic anti public sector service line in general. Whatever your feelings are about single payer healthcare, it’s incredibly disingenuous when politicians debate against it by bringing up the cost of such a system, without comparing it to the current cost of the private system it would replace.

Government size as a proportion of GDP is at 42.36% [1]. How much bigger should it get? 1. https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/...

That is a meaningless metric on its own. What matters is how much money you have left to spend on things you want to as part of a healthy, happy life.

In the US a lot of things are inefficiently pushed into the private sector, health care being a good example. Taxes + private health care costs in the US are a higher percentage of GDP in the US than in any developed nation yet the results are the worst of the same cohort (OECD).

(This isn’t to say that there aren’t things done inefficiently in government that might be better in the private sector. Just saying that single figures are worthless alone).

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#162

Post by fwungy »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #76
gumby wrote: post #69

I love the quote from the Intuit VP, which complained that it would end up “costing billions of dollars in taxpayer money.” The current system costs billions of dollars in taxpayer money, it’s just that today those dollars flow to Intuit. The IRS one should end up costing less overall, even at govt contracting rates.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” ― Upton Sinclair

This is the most important quote for the modern era.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#163

Post by [deleted] »

sokoloff wrote: post #90
poiop wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes in Sweden are generally effortless. Deductions, investments and benefits are often generous and easy to file. Unfortunately if you are more modest the story is a bit different. It is great if you are established. You might have a big house, high maintenance costs, use cleaning services, invest a lot in the stock market and other things that comes with all that. Because not only is it easy but you get a lot of p…

> then I would have to file much more complicated taxes and therefor get much less enjoyment from taxes being easy for personal income. Still by not doing so I am giving up tens of thousands of dollars a year. For tens of thousands of dollars per year , surely some tax/company admin service exists that could offload the vast majority of the tedium from you, leaving you with perhaps 10-20 hours of effort/personal atte…

[deleted]

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#164

Post by fwungy »

wredue wrote: post #95
gumby wrote: post #69

I love the quote from the Intuit VP, which complained that it would end up “costing billions of dollars in taxpayer money.” The current system costs billions of dollars in taxpayer money, it’s just that today those dollars flow to Intuit. The IRS one should end up costing less overall, even at govt contracting rates.

The IRS taking this on this way has incentive to automate and make taxes as easy as possible. Intuits incentive is to keep taxes complicated and as manual as possible. Therefore, the most likely outcome is that the IRS taking this on will most assuredly result in saving tax payer money.

Simple, relatively high, taxes for the plebs and a complex, exploitable tax code for the rich.

There's no need for wagies with low net worths to go through the full process.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#165

Post by wredue »

fwungy wrote: post #164
wredue wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS taking this on this way has incentive to automate and make taxes as easy as possible. Intuits incentive is to keep taxes complicated and as manual as possible. Therefore, the most likely outcome is that the IRS taking this on will most assuredly result in saving tax payer money.

Simple, relatively high, taxes for the plebs and a complex, exploitable tax code for the rich. There's no need for wagies with low net worths to go through the full process.

The things the rich are capable of doing with their money is beyond the reach of us “normal” people.

I don’t know how we can possibly not have complex taxes for the rich short of taking all their money.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#166

Post by ac29 »

INTPenis wrote: post #128

This federal government thing is really confusing to me as a european. Like the federal government can come to California and shutdown a cannabis dispensary, but they can't make you use an easier way to file your taxes.

Re: the cannabis situation - the closest European analogy would be Amsterdam or Christiania. Cannabis sales are not legal in those countries, but some sales are tolerated in specific areas.

California isnt too much different - it is illegal in the United States to sell cannabis, but the federal government mostly tolerates it in states that permit sales.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#167

Post by INTPenis »

ac29 wrote: post #166
INTPenis wrote: post #128

This federal government thing is really confusing to me as a european. Like the federal government can come to California and shutdown a cannabis dispensary, but they can't make you use an easier way to file your taxes.

Re: the cannabis situation - the closest European analogy would be Amsterdam or Christiania. Cannabis sales are not legal in those countries, but some sales are tolerated in specific areas. California isnt too much different - it is illegal in the United States to sell cannabis, but the federal government mostly tolerates it in states that permit sales.

Yeah christiania is great and all but incidentally I've been going to christiania for almost as long as we've been able to file our taxes online with a button. (20 years)

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#168

Post by creer »

ss1996 wrote: post #39
somewhereoutth wrote: post #27

Does 'direct file' mean you won't have to post (by registered mail) your physical tax form to the IRS? That would be the biggest win surely (although huge loss for USPS)

Just curious, why are you still sending physical tax forms? Have you been filing 1040NR? Those were recently digitalized, while the standard 1040 has been digital since a while.

The issue is not the mere form 1040. Many taxpayers have to provide several to many other forms.

But besides that, the reason for printing and mailing is that the IRS seems to have focused on either tax prep software company interfaces to the IRS (the tax prep software submits), or fill out - esign - encrypt/hash/protect - submit in their own web-based workflows. In the cases they provide for, there is essentially no provision for adjusting the form to your needs or attaching statements (notes in your own format). And attached statements are very often required.

In particular the IRS refuses to let us upload a PDF or other images of filled out forms. Or email them. Such a submission could then take the exact same path as the forms they receive by mail - doesn't seem too hard - but no, we can't do that.

Some departments at IRS/Treasury insist on a fax interface. As the main alternative to mailing paper. At least in this case I can use a (not exactly safe) PDF to fax gateway to get on with my life.

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#169

Post by creer »

coldpie wrote: post #61
somewhereoutth wrote: post #27

Does 'direct file' mean you won't have to post (by registered mail) your physical tax form to the IRS? That would be the biggest win surely (although huge loss for USPS)

You haven't had to do this for years & years. The IRS provides an online form for all the paperwork. Type all your stuff in and hit Submit, for free. AFAIK it should work for pretty much all tax situations, all the forms are in there. https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form...

See the caveats and "not implemented" notes all over that solution. Many of them. Including basically mandatory ones (I don't know that their 1116 form is usable by anyone.) But yes, that one is progress. Although maybe not "years and years".

Re: 13 States join the IRS direct-file test after tax prep firms dropped the ball

#170

Post by yonaguska »

rayiner wrote: post #37
mnky9800n wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax code is complicated simply because wealthy people do not want to pay their fair share.

Have you ever done your taxes? For individuals, it’s easier if you have a high income because many of the deductions and credits phase out and are capped by AGI. Dependent care FSA versus dependent care credits, student loan interest deductions, etc. Most of the questions the software asks you aren’t “Warren buffet” deductions.

Actual wealthy is living off investment income, not a W2. These are the people the complications are built for.
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