Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

tomshardware.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 111 posts

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#101

Post by CatWChainsaw »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #40
CatWChainsaw wrote: post #2

Per the article, the consequences would restrict almost all 3D printing in the state. Would they require background checks on people who previously bought 3D printers? What if you go to another state with a prepaid card... Will they search your cars traveling interstate? Comb through your transactions and contacts?

>Would they require background checks on people who previously bought 3D printers? They do for guns, why should this be any different? It's possible that someone became a felon since they got their last 3d printer, and the cops wont necessarily check if someone is on the 3D printer owner registey when they arrest someone (if such a registrt will be created?) Plus when they eventually implement a 10 day waiting period…

Computers can be used to make CSAM so anyone who has one should also get a background check and wait 10 days.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#102

Post by spaceribs »

yeetawayhn wrote: post #99
spaceribs wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, you're arguing with people who consider gun deaths to be an epidemic[1], and are treating it as such. [1] https://www.npr.org/2023/06/29/1184731316/gun-violence-epide...

And yet those are the same people who don't consider alcohol deaths to be an epidemic, and aren't treating it as such.

I don't know anyone that finds the gun epidemic as well as the alcohol epidemic to not be equally bad.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#103

Post by spaceribs »

chung8123 wrote: post #98
spaceribs wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems urban centers are significantly safer than rural counties, by about 37%: https://www.chop.edu/news/study-finds-gun-deaths-more-likely...

"Over that same period, the most rural county type had a 54% higher gun suicide death rate and a 50% lower gun homicide death rate compared with the most urban counties." I am not sure I am reading the data the same way as you. To me this shows urban areas have a much higher homicide rate which would be more associated with safety.

you don't think self harm and suicide is just as bad, if not worse, from a safety perspective?

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#104

Post by Dig1t »

As a tangent, there is a really cool scene on YouTube and X of people 3D printing guns. Some folks are even making their own ammunition. There is a lot of innovation in the space by backyard hackers and it's pretty fun to watch.

Most of it is demonetized of course, but that's probably a good thing.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#105

Post by FatCat1978 »

spaceribs wrote: post #103
chung8123 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Over that same period, the most rural county type had a 54% higher gun suicide death rate and a 50% lower gun homicide death rate compared with the most urban counties." I am not sure I am reading the data the same way as you. To me this shows urban areas have a much higher homicide rate which would be more associated with safety.

you don't think self harm and suicide is just as bad, if not worse, from a safety perspective?

Yes. Suicide doesn't infringe on other people's rights, and in fact, everyone should have the right to it, like you see in actually free countries like Canada.

Using suicide as a safety metric is both misleading and generally in bad faith - it's usually a far better representation of mental health (generally loneliness/depression) or overall quality of life.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#106

Post by FatCat1978 »

Ekaros wrote: post #92
wkat4242 wrote: post #87

Why not target the ammunition instead? After all, guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people. And ammunition can't be printed and can't be made out of plastic. You can make it yourself yes but it's also possible to make a rudimentary gun from regular metal parts.

Maybe sensible step would be to require every bullet and casing to be implanted with a chip. Thus allow tracking when and where those were bought.

How would that be sensible?

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#107

Post by chung8123 »

spaceribs wrote: post #103
chung8123 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Over that same period, the most rural county type had a 54% higher gun suicide death rate and a 50% lower gun homicide death rate compared with the most urban counties." I am not sure I am reading the data the same way as you. To me this shows urban areas have a much higher homicide rate which would be more associated with safety.

you don't think self harm and suicide is just as bad, if not worse, from a safety perspective?

I don't. I am not in danger of suicide killing me.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#108

Post by spaceribs »

FatCat1978 wrote: post #105
spaceribs wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't think self harm and suicide is just as bad, if not worse, from a safety perspective?

Yes. Suicide doesn't infringe on other people's rights, and in fact, everyone should have the right to it, like you see in actually free countries like Canada. Using suicide as a safety metric is both misleading and generally in bad faith - it's usually a far better representation of mental health (generally loneliness/depression) or overall quality of life.

Agreed that the overall quality of life is lower in rural counties which is leading to a mental health crisis, and agreed on the right to suicide.

This amount of suicides from people who I assume are mostly able bodied and otherwise healthy though by gun indicates a few things to me though:

1. Guns are an extremely effective and fast method of suicide.

2. Sudden depression or psychosis could happen to anyone.

3. A mental state can be and usually is transitory or treatable.

I think my belief from the above is that this is a safety issue in terms of the immediacy of the act, rather than the act itself. Taking pills, jumping from a bridge, asphyxiation all take time and planning. All you need is one gun in your house for self-defense bought years ago or inherited/borrowed from a close associate, or even for hunting, and there's nothing our societal safety net or your future self can provide for protection from your present self.

I have a friend who was admitted to the hospital for medically induced psychosis (a known side effect of the medication prescribed by his doctor), it scares me to think that anyone trusts that their brain chemistry and state is this solid and unwavering foundation of sanity, that's simply not always the case.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#109

Post by FatCat1978 »

spaceribs wrote: post #108
FatCat1978 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Suicide doesn't infringe on other people's rights, and in fact, everyone should have the right to it, like you see in actually free countries like Canada. Using suicide as a safety metric is both misleading and generally in bad faith - it's usually a far better representation of mental health (generally loneliness/depression) or overall quality of life.

Agreed that the overall quality of life is lower in rural counties which is leading to a mental health crisis, and agreed on the right to suicide. This amount of suicides from people who I assume are mostly able bodied and otherwise healthy though by gun indicates a few things to me though: 1. Guns are an extremely effective and fast method of suicide. 2. Sudden depression or psychosis could happen to anyone. 3. A me…

> nothing our societal safety net or your future self can provide for protection from your present self.

That's generally the case of rural living as a whole. Internet? fat chance before starlink. have fun with dialup or horrendous phone. This alone limits your financial flexibility greatly. Thank god Starlink exists now.

Have a heart attack? Have fun being dead or getting over it on your own by the time an ambulance shows up!

Ditto for pretty much anything. House fire? tough tits, the fire department will show up an hour later to make sure there's no embers.

Legislation? Unless your state/province is mostly rural (which it pretty much never is), Urbanites are the golden goose. 90% of legislation is made with them in mind.

This has lead rural communities to be entirely self reliant, for good reason. they don't have society to rely on. They, more than pretty much any urbanite, have actual reason to have guns. Taking them away isn't going to change the fact that nobody gives a shit about them on a systemic level lol, and if anything will probably make them resent urbanites more for taking their shit away.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#110

Post by spaceribs »

FatCat1978 wrote: post #109
spaceribs wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed that the overall quality of life is lower in rural counties which is leading to a mental health crisis, and agreed on the right to suicide. This amount of suicides from people who I assume are mostly able bodied and otherwise healthy though by gun indicates a few things to me though: 1. Guns are an extremely effective and fast method of suicide. 2. Sudden depression or psychosis could happen to anyone. 3. A me…

> nothing our societal safety net or your future self can provide for protection from your present self. That's generally the case of rural living as a whole. Internet? fat chance before starlink. have fun with dialup or horrendous phone. This alone limits your financial flexibility greatly. Thank god Starlink exists now. Have a heart attack? Have fun being dead or getting over it on your own by the time an ambulance…

The voting power of a person in NYC is 0.8 compared to 3.04 in Wyoming. [https://medium.com/practical-coding/whats-my-vote-worth-3ca2...]

I understand that there's a privilege involved in even having a close community, I recognize that and cherish that I have not only neighbors but close friends living less than 30 feet from me. I also recognize that the problems I have in a city are a planet's difference compared to rural living.

That said, I think people who live rural are putting themselves at serious risk by embracing social isolation, and the data describes that. I'm extremely happy about starlink because for people's health, we need that kind of infrastructure to keep people connected, and extremely unhappy that we couldn't build it out faster. Everyone should have a right to community.

As for guns, the UK allows anyone to own a gun through a licensing program [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58198857]. It's probably the most onerous requirements in the world, but they also have the lowest rates of gun death (both homicide and suicide) [https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...]. Guns are considered a privilege, not a right, and so the likelihood of even running into someone with a gun who might be threatening your life either in the city or the country, is significantly smaller.

I'm not expecting a constitutional amendment, but getting back to my previous argument, we rammed through drug laws without a second thought to the implications of the constitution or the effect it would have on my city, and we could certainly do that here by regulating black powder in the same way we regulate fentanyl.

I have a feeling people don't like this argument on either side because it reveals something hypocritical from both perspectives. The anti-gun crowd is very focused on the machine and the fear it instills, take away the AK47 and you're left with something that doesn't instill the same sort of emotional reaction, and much of their argument is built on that. The pro-gun crowd hates it not just because in creates regulation without taking away their guns (an entirely legal argument i'm sure), it flips the script toward a gun seller being a fentanyl dealer and a gun owner being a fentanyl user, which considering the numbers, isn't that far off apparently.

Post reply on HN