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"A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

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Re: "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

#141

Post by F2hP18Foam »

rvbissell wrote: post #113
craigyk wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gene Wolfe. Somehow resolves or explains every seemingly random occurrence throughout the story, even if the first person narrator is extremely unreliable and doesn’t make the connection

What book would you recommend as a good introduction to his works?

Despite what the parent comment said I'd still recommend Shadow of The Torturer, the first book in the Book of The New Sun series. If you like the idea of being immersed in a world that you don't fully understand, but gives you the impression that there is a richness of lore behind every minor detail, then you'll enjoy it.

Re: "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

#142

Post by mrmlz »

gibspaulding wrote: post #70
bjelkeman-again wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it was a bit meh. But the book is so good I forgive the ending.

I barely remember the actual story in cryptonomicon, but his tangents on who fucked who in Greek mythology, how to eat cereal with a beard, how to assemble a Linux distro with such an obtuse user interface as to defeat Van Eck Phreaking, or Plato's cave are absolute gold.

I learned so many random bits of information from that book.. Just the amount of work that goes into laying underwater fiber!

He wrote a article about it later (or before?)

https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/

Great read!

Re: "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

#143

Post by BirAdam »

aporetics wrote: post #115
BirAdam wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a great substitute for Nell’s parent.

That's a bit thick. The whole plot ends up being about the search for the true mother. The main contrivances of the story go to great lengths to spell this out: not even a technology as advanced as the primer can substitute functionally for human connection. If it is not already clear by the last handful of pages, it gets hammered in with by acts of courage which show what is worth risking one's life for.

Her adoptive parent in absentia is essentially part of the Primer for most of Nell’s pre-adult life with the two of them not meeting in any serious way until Nell is already a Monarch. Nell’s actual parent alternated between abusive and neglectful and she brought men into her home who abused Nell sexually. By any measure, even the Primer the mouse army had is better than that, and Nell’s copy also linked her to a human who actually gave a shit.

Re: "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

#144

Post by pantalaimon »

yongjik wrote: post #126
jjcm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely a Stephenson issue. It's a meme for sure, but there is some truth in it. Nowadays when I re-read any of his old works, I tend to stop after getting about 80% through. That said, I do think that these incredibly complex narratives are extremely hard to wrap up neatly. GRRM has this issue as well. That's the problem with letting characters act how they would actually act, and make decisions that make sense f…

The ending of the original Foundation trilogy was absolutely top-notch, down to the final reveal. Too bad the sequels kinda ruined it (for me).

The introduction of the mule spoiled it for me. Up until that point suspension of disbelief worked well and the world seemed very real, the introduction of a supernatural element didn’t fit the previous tone of the story IMHO

Re: "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

#145

Post by noknownsender »

cl42 wrote: post #22
geophile wrote: post #19

I loved Diamond Age. My favorite Stephenson book, by far. But the ending, the resolution of all the action, was such a letdown. Such meh. I find that this is often a problem with cyberpunk.

Do you think that's a Neal Stephenson issue? Don't get me wrong, I love his writing, but I found this to be the case with Fall too. I can see it becoming tiring if one is writing 400+ page books.

That's always been my take.

The first 75% of most of his books are among my favorite recent books.

I've never enjoyed an ending.

Re: "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

#146

Post by smogcutter »

rvbissell wrote: post #113
craigyk wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gene Wolfe. Somehow resolves or explains every seemingly random occurrence throughout the story, even if the first person narrator is extremely unreliable and doesn’t make the connection

What book would you recommend as a good introduction to his works?

“Book of the New Sun”, beginning with Shadow of the Torturer, is his major work but can be unapproachable at first. The narrator/protagonist is a terrific character, but a IMO difficult one to spend time with.

The Fifth Head of Cerberus is also a great entry point. It’s a set of three interconnected novellas that, for my part at least, were more immediately engaging than BotNS. It’s got all the Wolfe-isms you want: unreliable narrators, unconventional settings, and puzzle-box stories that slowly open themselves.

Re: "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

#147

Post by picadores »

famouswaffles wrote: post #15
giraffe_lady wrote: post #7

This isn't the first time I've seen this allusion and I feel a little crazy each time. A major but mostly implicit plot point of that book was that only the primer backed by a connection to an invested and nurturing adult was able to accomplish the goals of the project. The two that were purely automated failed. Now like, it's fiction not prophesy and you can get into various whatifs sure. But you can't dodge the fac…

You already answered it yourself. Neal's work was fiction. He had a story to tell. a lesson/narrative to convey. His intent "got in the way" of possible reality. Purely automated Primers didn't work simply because Neal didn't want them to in his story. There are no strong reasons as to why they shouldn't work. It's just human exceptionalism at work again. The readers are not Neal. They may, as is their choice be far…

Its based upon a looping historic event though, the boxer rebellion..

Re: "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

#148

Post by shantnutiwari »

cyberpunk wrote: post #139
geophile wrote: post #19

I loved Diamond Age. My favorite Stephenson book, by far. But the ending, the resolution of all the action, was such a letdown. Such meh. I find that this is often a problem with cyberpunk.

Wow, I mean.. bit harsh? I’m working on it..

Ha! I was going to downvote until I saw your username

Re: "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

#149

Post by slothtrop »

geophile wrote: post #56
slothtrop wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what people want or expect. I thought it was a fine ending.

What is the point of the book? It's a fascinating world he created, but all the action is about nothing. It's so inconsequential compared to everything else going on. The problem starts way before the ending. See my comment about MacGuffins elsewhere in this discussion.

You can write off swaths of books and entire genres by asking "what is the point" but that aside even if someone offered an answer would it change the way you feel about it? No.

Re: "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" Simulated by GPT-4

#150

Post by cainxinth »

geophile wrote: post #19

I loved Diamond Age. My favorite Stephenson book, by far. But the ending, the resolution of all the action, was such a letdown. Such meh. I find that this is often a problem with cyberpunk.

In the first half, the Nell is just a sweet, innocent, vulnerable child, which ratchets up the tension tremendously any time she is in danger.

By the end, she’s tough and capable, so Stephenson tries to increase the pressure with intrigue and conflict. But, I was simply more invested in Nell herself than the fate of her world.

I didn’t hate the ending, but the first half was definitely more gripping.

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