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Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

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Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#281

Post by moneywoes »

alephnerd wrote: post #62
killjoywashere wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India Ok, so, I have a friend who works big tech and he has no chill for Indians (SWEs, PMs, etc). Is there a grain of truth to the “lazy Indian” trope? I always assumed, especially first generation immigrants, would be working balls-to-the-wall. Am I wrong? Is there some sort of incentive misalignment in the H1B program? Is it cultural (e.g. like “island time”, which I’ve learned is at least partially attributable…

What company were you at and what were you paying? Did you directly hire or use 3rd party contractors/bodyshops? If you underpay talent anywhere they'll do their bare minimum. I've hired and (product) managed Indian employees and they're equally as capable as our Israeli, Eastern European, and SV employees - we just pay them market rate in Bangalore/Gurgaon/Hyderabad. Depending on the age of your friend, they might j…

how do you hire and find quality remote?

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#282

Post by preciousoo »

robertlagrant wrote: post #270
quadrifoliate wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, so, I have a friend who works big tech and he has no chill for Indians (SWEs, PMs, etc). Is there a grain of truth to the “lazy Indian” trope? Indian here. First generation, naturalized American, et cetera. I'll be honest and say that my initial response was, “Ugh! Your friend is a big old racist”. Moving on from that reflexive thought, I'll attempt to answer your question of: > I’m asking is there a perceptual…

> The H1B program is terrible in that it ties your immigration status to your current employer I thought it was a temporary working visa more than a route to immigration? I understand the temptation to go for it (I did something not entirely dissimilar working in another country for a few years under temporary visas) but not the mindset that doesn't take into account the reality of the arrangement, which is well know…

Officially it is, and if you present to USCIS that you have plans to go beyond the limits of H1B, technically they could take action. In practice however,

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#283

Post by alephnerd »

moneywoes wrote: post #281
alephnerd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What company were you at and what were you paying? Did you directly hire or use 3rd party contractors/bodyshops? If you underpay talent anywhere they'll do their bare minimum. I've hired and (product) managed Indian employees and they're equally as capable as our Israeli, Eastern European, and SV employees - we just pay them market rate in Bangalore/Gurgaon/Hyderabad. Depending on the age of your friend, they might j…

how do you hire and find quality remote?

For those located abroad, a mix of referrals and also basing hiring criteria on a mix of where you worked previously, where you studied, a very rigorous panel interview, and having EMs and PMs who have cultural competencies in regions like Israel, Eastern Europe, and India.

An American isn't gunna jive with the work culture in those regions - it's more cutthroat and productive IME - but luckily there are plenty of diaspora Israelis, Indians, and Eastern Europeans who are fine returning to the old country to act as a GM or Director while earning a $100-200k salary in countries where the median income is $40k, $20k (Czechia), and $2k respectively.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#284

Post by BeFlatXIII »

myself248 wrote: post #133
mongol wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having 17 direct reports is too much. Managers are not just a link in the chain of command. They also do stuff that needs to be taken care of. All kinds of unusal things happen and not all are suitable for delegation. 17 direct reports is not only a measure of how many colleagues they need to manage. It is also a measure of the large the weird-things-that-needs-taking-of-scope is.

Seriously. The most effective teams I've ever worked in, had 3-5 people under a manager. The manager occasionally got their hands dirty when they could spare the time, but in general, "getting every roadblock out of 5 people's way" is a lot of work, and combined with all the non-delegatable stuff, would keep them pretty busy. When a team grows much beyond that, the manager is no longer removing all the roadblocks. Th…

Your final paragraph is why it's so important for companies to grant formal titles to their ass. managers. You can effective manage a large number of direct reports, if you have an assistant to handle the other half of your job.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#285

Post by VirusNewbie »

UK-AL wrote: post #228
baby wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve worked with engineering managers and they did none of the stuff you listed lol. I’m still wondering what they were doing.

I've worked at many software companies, and the idea that a engineering manager can do a system design is hilarious. Most come from non technical backgrounds, or we're in a technical role for a short time.

At my FAANG, the chain up until the SVP has an engineering background. I previously worked for a startup that put a non engineer in charge which was super weird. Before that, my engineering manager was highly technical.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#286

Post by next_xibalba »

kuchenbecker wrote: post #15

I'm at LI and my reporting chain is Sr mgr > Sr Director > VP > Sr vp > CEO. A year ago it was mgr > sr mgr > director > sr Director> vp> svp > ceo. No one in my management chain was impacted but the flattening has been happening organically as folks leave. LI has a distinctive lack of chill right now contrary to the company image, but generally things are just moving faster.

Meta is so much worse. I honestly have no idea what those intermediate layers do. I mean, concretely, what do those people do all day?

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#287

Post by next_xibalba »

screye wrote: post #79
killjoywashere wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India Ok, so, I have a friend who works big tech and he has no chill for Indians (SWEs, PMs, etc). Is there a grain of truth to the “lazy Indian” trope? I always assumed, especially first generation immigrants, would be working balls-to-the-wall. Am I wrong? Is there some sort of incentive misalignment in the H1B program? Is it cultural (e.g. like “island time”, which I’ve learned is at least partially attributable…

Huh, my experience is the opposite. Indians work themselves to death, while Americans have very clear boundaries on when they stop working. Chinese Americans & Indian Americans work about the same as Americans, but 1st generation Chinese immigrants easily take #1 for the most hours put in. > Is there a grain of truth to the “lazy Indian” trope? I wonder if it has to do with out-sourcing farms. I have been lucky enoug…

> 1st generation Chinese immigrants easily take #1 for the most hours put in.

My experience echoes this. I worked with a guy who basically built every important thing the company depended on and he seemed to be available 24/7. I’d get on calls with him at 12am and then hear he’d been on with someone the following morning at 7am. He was also notoriously prickly (possible bc he was working so damn much!). I distinctly remember him screaming at me, in his broken English, “WHO HERE IS THE ENGINEER!?”* when I had the temerity to question a minor technical decision of his. Nevertheless, I walked away respecting the hell out that guy and still get a chuckle out of the memories.

*I was a mere data analyst at the time and thus a barely functioning human in his eyes.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#288

Post by psunavy03 »

gilbetron wrote: post #271
psunavy03 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A teams will crush A people every day and twice on Sundays. The lone wolf 10x dev myth needs to die. This is not 1994.

The A/B/C quote isn't about lone wolf devs, but is "A players hire A players, B players hire C players". Meaning really good devs want to work with other really good devs, but mediocre devs want to work with crappy devs to make themselves look better. I still think it is kind of full of bunk, although it has some truth. A players do typically want to work with A players, but a lot of "B" players just want to have a m…

I've worked in software and I've flown jets off an aircraft carrier. Egos are not an unfamiliar concept. And while there are "A" players, there are also arrogant prima donnas who think they're "A" players, which is why I'm skeptical of sentences like this.

In my previous life, there were plenty of people who could water your eyes in the jet, but who couldn't mentor or bring along new folks to save their lives. Which made them useless in the long term because they couldn't train their replacement.

The real gold are the "A" players who can mentor "B" players into becoming "A" players. Because in any field, there are three kinds of people. The natural freaks of nature who need no help, the vast middle, and the incompetent who shouldn't be there. Organizations who crush it understand that they need the best team players out of Group 1 to mentor the crap out of as much of Group 2 as they can, and they only need to fire Group 3. But the prima donnas of Group 1 make it sound like they can carry an organization . . . and they largely can't.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#289

Post by zonkerdonker »

next_xibalba wrote: post #286
kuchenbecker wrote: post #15

I'm at LI and my reporting chain is Sr mgr > Sr Director > VP > Sr vp > CEO. A year ago it was mgr > sr mgr > director > sr Director> vp> svp > ceo. No one in my management chain was impacted but the flattening has been happening organically as folks leave. LI has a distinctive lack of chill right now contrary to the company image, but generally things are just moving faster.

Meta is so much worse. I honestly have no idea what those intermediate layers do. I mean, concretely, what do those people do all day?

Hog the best rooms all day is what they do.
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