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Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

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Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#451

Post by diogenes4 »

nilespotter wrote: post #442
Aeolun wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a general tendency of all excessive violence always(ish, I can think of one exception) happening to be against colored people?

You're asking me to believe that this man feels a certain way and committed a racist murder based on a general tendency? Even if I grant you the ridiculous premise that this tendency is real, that line of thinking isn't close to sound. I see I'm getting downvoted here by the typical good dogs, but this has always bothered me about the incident. The racism was presented to us by the media with no explanation, and most…

You don't have to believe anything, but if you don't see the racism that pervades our society you're utterly blind.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#452

Post by nilespotter »

Larrikin wrote: post #450
nilespotter wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're asking me to believe that this man feels a certain way and committed a racist murder based on a general tendency? Even if I grant you the ridiculous premise that this tendency is real, that line of thinking isn't close to sound. I see I'm getting downvoted here by the typical good dogs, but this has always bothered me about the incident. The racism was presented to us by the media with no explanation, and most…

>The racism was presented to us by the media with no explanation There were hours and hours and hours of explanation. You just decided that you didn't like the explanation and decided to ignore the facts. Assuming you're asking in good faith which is extremely doubtful. You're being downvoted because the murder happened 3 years ago, Chauvin was convicted by a jury of his peers, and its not worth anyone's time to expl…

He was convicted of murder, I don't question that. He was not convicted of racism.

If it's so obvious and self evident and I've merely ignored the facts, surely you could explain it to me succinctly. You can't, of course, because you don't know why you believe it, and there is reason to believe it.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#453

Post by diogenes4 »

vlovich123 wrote: post #352
diogenes4 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not one to ever defend the institution of policing or the court system that feeds and protects it, but cops do not have general immunity. They have qualified immunity from civil cases in some places. The primary friction from prosecuting police for criminal behavior has been and will continue to be DAs unwilling to prosecute (for various reasons, some reasonable, and some nefarious).

Right, so they’ve culturally made it impossible for the government to go after them and legally impossible for citizens. Pretty sweet deal.

There are many reasons why police serve the role they do in society. Neglecting other reasons other than blatant racketeering—the role they play in preserving the institution of private property, the role they play in filling prisons, the role they play in preserving the illusion of justice—serves nobody.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#454

Post by nilespotter »

diogenes4 wrote: post #451
nilespotter wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're asking me to believe that this man feels a certain way and committed a racist murder based on a general tendency? Even if I grant you the ridiculous premise that this tendency is real, that line of thinking isn't close to sound. I see I'm getting downvoted here by the typical good dogs, but this has always bothered me about the incident. The racism was presented to us by the media with no explanation, and most…

You don't have to believe anything, but if you don't see the racism that pervades our society you're utterly blind.

So whenever anyone suggests a racial motive in a specific case, where this is no supporting evidence in that case, your stance is to just go along with it, because racism pervades our society?

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#455

Post by Semaphor »

SauciestGNU wrote: post #401
Semaphor wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only semi related, but we have a synagogue here with it's own small police station. But I'm in Germany, it has been burned twice already.

Pardon the insensitive question, but burned twice since the Holocaust? Is violent antisemitism still so prevalent? Did denazification fail so badly?

Not insensitive. It’s a bit of a special case. It avoided being burned in 1938 because it was already planned to be sold to the city, thought it was still damaged. Then it came to fame in 1994 when the first arson attack on a synagogue since 1938 was attempted. A second attack happened in 1995 and those responsible were never found.

It was completely restored in 2020, which was when the small police station was also added, and has been in active use as a Synagogue again since then. I’d love to see it now, as I have only been inside before the restoration started (guided tour), but I need to figure out how as it’s normally closed to the public behind an electronic gate.

There is a Wikipedia page, but only in German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synagoge_L%C3%BCbeck

> Is violent antisemitism still so prevalent? Did denazification fail so badly?

We’ve certainly had our issues, with several big scandals just in recent times, but it’s now once again getting worse in line with right wing extremist ideologies gaining ground world-wide. Jews are, as it has always been in history, getting fucked in particular with both Nazis and some of the extremist Islamic immigrants hating them, and of course also some of the left.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#456

Post by earthscienceman »

cvccvroomvroom wrote: post #416
PumpkinSpice wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite part is that California has a roster of handguns approved for sale. The pretext for its existence is consumer safety (it is entirely separate from bans on stuff like assault weapons or large magazines), but the actual effect is that you have a very limited selection in stores, and most of the designs are very dated. But if you're a police officer? You get an exemption! Apparently, the state has no regard…

Another reason why I left California. You can't buy a Canik's as a non-LEO. Also, criminals get whatever guns they want and carry them while law-abiding citizens can't do anything except wish not to be mugged or murdered with strong objections. It's completely absurd given how violent America is.

Can you tell me, with sincere curiosity, how you expect being able to buy modern handguns to make America less violent? I ask as a gun owner.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#457

Post by ksaho »

pard68 wrote: post #433
NullInvictus wrote: post #310

You have to have been raised pretty sweetly to not have known this kind of racketeering was a 'thing' for a very long time. Pressure to hire cops is rampant. 'rent-a-cop' is not aimed at the fact that security companies apply aggressive mimicry to their people, but that these people are themselves often off-duty cops. Security companies are strongly "encouraged" to hire off-duty cops, and find themselves left out to…

You have a citation for your interpretation of "rent-a-cop"? I am intrigued but cannot find any use of the phrase other than something to the effect of "wannabe cop". Even the 1987 movie by that name is a former cop who works private security (fair warning I have never heard of the movie until reading the wiki summary a few minutes ago).

[flagged]

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#458

Post by lowbloodsugar »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #263
Daviey wrote: post #146

I'm constantly surprised that the US allows off-duty police to "moonlight" as security. What is worse, many states seem to allow them to wear both their uniform and retain their police powers, whilst being paid in a private capacity. Which other countries allow this?

Moonlighting isnt the problem. Workers arent slaves and should be able to work elsewhere when they arent on the clock. Cities legally requiring people to hire moonlighting cops IS the problem.

Plenty of contracts in the US require that the employee doesn't work for anyone else, and they are enforceable in most states.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#459

Post by VirusNewbie »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #386
VirusNewbie wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your idea has many flaws, but I am very surprised and happy to see novel approaches here, and it absolutely represents my favorite part of HackerNews. Probably the reason policing is sub optimal is due to the fact that it is funded by the city, so more prosperous areas can pay more, and recruit the best cops, while the areas with less income often can't pay as well, (or enough to offset the risks). Compare th…

> I think your idea has many flaws, but I am very surprised and happy to see novel approaches here, and it absolutely represents my favorite part of HackerNews. Really appreciate the words of encouragement here! If you want to encourage me further, you should give details about the flaws and challenge me to address them :-)

sure. I'm not at all thinking my flaws are insurmountable, but I think the problem is you are unlikely to get enough data to draw many conclusions, at least in places that aren't incredibly dense and crime ridden.

I'm thinking of the suburb outside of LA I live in. It's somewhat spread out, and some areas have small amounts of violent crime, while some neighborhoods are incredibly rich and most neighborhoods are gated or have private security etc. Having 3 departments be able to serve such a large land area to ensure that response types are evenly distributed seem challenging.

But, maybe in a place like San Francisco (more dense, also more crime) this could work?

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#460

Post by VirusNewbie »

hollerith wrote: post #369
VirusNewbie wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your idea has many flaws, but I am very surprised and happy to see novel approaches here, and it absolutely represents my favorite part of HackerNews. Probably the reason policing is sub optimal is due to the fact that it is funded by the city, so more prosperous areas can pay more, and recruit the best cops, while the areas with less income often can't pay as well, (or enough to offset the risks). Compare th…

Are you sure? The one county I investigated has 14 law enforcement agencies and 12 school distrcts: https://www.marincountyda.org/local-links https://www.marincounty.org/residents/community/school-distr...

sorry I don't see what the links have to do with what I said. In my area of CA, school funding is provided by the county and police is funded through the city.
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