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About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

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Re: About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

#611

Post by nomel »

reactordev wrote: post #596
nomel wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trying to find music that I like to listen to As mentioned, my problem, as a listener, is discovery, which bandcamp doesn't address.

I’m afraid if bandcamp doesn’t address discovery and SoundCloud doesn’t either then you’re referring to the “shuffle-radio” where you discover new music without doing anything? This is how Brooks Jefferson got to 60m listens in the first place. “Sounds like Garth Brooks!” Because it’s his songs sang by a wedding singer.

> then you’re referring to the “shuffle-radio”

No, recommendation systems, like Spotify uses, uses crowdsourcing and song analysis to drive the "radio". You can make "song radio" that has the same style/feeling as a song, artist, or genre.

Re: About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

#612

Post by nomel »

mattkevan wrote: post #552
nomel wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trying to find music that I like to listen to As mentioned, my problem, as a listener, is discovery, which bandcamp doesn't address.

As a listener, Bandcamp is my favourite place for discovery bar none. Find a genre or label and start exploring the catalogue. Find other users with similar tastes and explore their lists. Follow artists, labels and users to see their activity stream. It's not as passive as just hitting play on a playlist, but I've discovered so many incredible artists and labels this way. I'd be genuinely devastated if Bandcamp goes…

This is, effectively, what the recommendation systems do. They suggest songs/artists that users with similar tastes liked, and songs with similar styles (there's deep analysis/categorization of the sound of the song).

I prefer an automated process, rather than clicking about, navigating lists. It's ok that this is my preference.

Re: About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

#613

Post by presbyterian »

ascagnel_ wrote: post #384
presbyterian wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any time I download music from Bandcamp, I drag it into Apple Music on my Mac and it syncs to all of my devices, sitting in my library like any other album. It’s actually one of the reasons I use Apple Music over Spotify, the process to do this in Spotify is much more convoluted.

Spotify’s process is that the files need to be locally accessible from any computer playing the music, or they must be synced manually to the mobile app. Lack of a real library is why I ditched Spotify for Rdio years and years ago, and why I switched to Apple Music when that became a thing. And I still run a Plex server, partially for the PlexAmp player.

But you still can’t even just add them to your library in Spotify, you have to put them in playlists, and then download that playlist on your phone, and then they’ll be on your phone. At least that was the system last I used it

Re: About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

#614

Post by jmye »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #472
jmye wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m unaware of anything on Bandcamp that is remotely as useful to me as the auto-built playlists and artist/song radio tools in Spotify. That there’s “a lot” of music on either platform is meaningless if the tools to find things I’d like don’t work for me. I get the compensation model sucks for artists. I try to buy things from bands I like. But ultimately, if artists don’t like the Spotify model, they should pull th…

> but I’m going to continue to use a platform that gives me access to everything I’d ever want to hear for like, $10/mo. I'm going to continue to use a platform that can only cost as little as it does because the people who create the art that motivates the entire existence of the platform get paid essentially nothing well, uh, bravo, I guess.

Then they should pull their music. You know, the part I said that you cut off so you could what, poorly paraphrase my position as negatively as possible? To what end? Was your day that bad that you needed to make someone else look little to feel better about it?

But uh, bravo, I guess.

Re: About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

#615

Post by throwaway290 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #605
throwaway290 wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friends run a band professionally (aka music is their job), they say it's scammy in how they charge their fees, leading to very small or zero revenue compared to other platforms. They say Bandcamp is good at selling physical merch including vinyl, but not digital music

I have no idea what their experience is, but is absolutely not my experience on BC (selling digital music) nor that of anyone else I know. They have the best margin-to-artist of any music distribution system I am aware of.

You say you are very tiny musician, are you actually trying to feed yourself off your music or is it just for fun mostly?

Re: About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

#616

Post by dclowd9901 »

anonzzzies wrote: post #444
dclowd9901 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because profit has somehow become the goal. Take away profit as a target and then you’re just left with people doing what they want.

And that’s a bad thing?

Not to me, it wouldn’t be.

Re: About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

#617

Post by shiroiuma »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #589
shiroiuma wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inheritance assumes that the founder's kids actually want to run their parent's company. Many times, they don't, so they sell. Running a company is a pain in the ass, so it's understandable many people don't want to be bothered.

There's a middle ground between giving a company to your kids and selling it to someone who you know will suck it dry for short-term gains. You can also give (or sell) it to someone that you know and trust to keep it sustainable.

Who? Where do you find this person? Do you have any experience in running a business and selling businesses to others?

And why do people assume that the kids are going to run it well or the same way the founder did? If anything, it seems like the kids of highly successful people are usually spoiled brats, and nothing like their parents. Did Bill Gates' kids create any successful software companies?

Re: About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

#618

Post by jemmyw »

thirdsun wrote: post #553
jemmyw wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the no true Scotsman argument. I have favorite bands and genres, I support local bands when I find them, I go to concerts when I'm able, though I don't live in an ideal location for it. I play music and I try to get together with others to play. And I use Spotify. I'm not interested in owning albums, you can stream an album or individual songs. I spent years buying music, ripping the CDs, organizing files, etc. I'…

Prepare for your music to disappear at any point. Licensing deals end and albums you love are suddenly removed from platforms. I understand that's an acceptable trade off for a casual listener. I actually use Spotify for previewing albums and consider it great value. However any music I care about I buy as I plan to own my library for decades to come. Plus, you're missing out on a lot of great music that never has be…

> Prepare for your music to disappear at any point.

So far it's only happened because the musician himself pulled the music, and I wasn't really enthused after that to try and find it again. As the gp said, there's so much music now... I might be missing out on some music but if I've already got too much to ever listen to then why does that matter? In fact, having to make the choice to purchase is necessarily going to limit the amount available and my willingness to take a chance on it.

Streaming has opened up so much for me that I would never have found browsing music shops. Of course if Spotify disappeared then I'd have to find another service or buy the music then. A problem for it's time.

Re: About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

#619

Post by jemmyw »

simpaticoder wrote: post #546
jemmyw wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the no true Scotsman argument. I have favorite bands and genres, I support local bands when I find them, I go to concerts when I'm able, though I don't live in an ideal location for it. I play music and I try to get together with others to play. And I use Spotify. I'm not interested in owning albums, you can stream an album or individual songs. I spent years buying music, ripping the CDs, organizing files, etc. I'…

> I don't really get why it matters. Support, experience, control. Physical media supports the artist. When you play a physical album you experience the whole album. When you own an album you control it and it cannot be taken away, edited or lost. Streaming doesn't support the artist. Streaming obliterates coherence of albums. When you stream music you do not control it and it can be taken away, edited or lost withou…

There's a few albums I love listening to all the way through every time. But for the most part I want to listen to the songs I like. I think about all the times I've found one song that really moves me on an album I don't care for, your suggestion is kind of like "well you should miss out on those gems".

Physical media doesn't support the artist much better either, that's been a topic of conversation since I was a kid.

Re: About half of Bandcamp employees have been laid off

#620

Post by x1xx »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #514
avitous wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too loved Bandcamp for its sane approach to acquiring new music; unlike "most people" I refuse to use the streaming-only services, and insist upon buying albums and listening to exactly those selections I choose (and I prefer to listen to albums in their entirety, even today). Perhaps I'm just old and set in my ways, but choices made by others, especially algorithmically generated "options maximizing my engagement"…

Can you explain why you are so opposed to streaming? I actually do both and own a few hundred lossless albums as well. Usually if I think something is moderately good, I'll purchase a lossless copy (unless I buy a CD of it, which I'll rip to my collection). However streaming is a more modern version of radio to me when I don't want to dig around playlists. I'll find new music I like from whatever spotify or apple mus…

Streaming is very different from radio: https://thebaffler.com/downstream/big-mood-machine-pelly When I pay for music I don't want harvesting of my listening habits to be part of the price.
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