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Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

chrlschn.dev

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Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#241

Post by vunderba »

indymike wrote: post #69

We use this process, and it has helped us hire some great developers without having to use third party staffing and headhunters: 1. Post well written job post on major job boards. 2. Immediately reply via text to every applicant (yes, we have opt in on the application) 3. Initial screening including several knock-out questions via text. Immediately let candidate know if they are not selected and why. 4. 30 minute can…

Man, I forgot how much people on hacker news absolutely hate the idea of side projects, a.k.a. passion for engineering and an interest in creating new things.

Somehow the implication is that if you build even one little side project for fun that means that you spend every single hour of your time coding. It's such a reductio ad absurdum argument.

If I was hiring an architect, I'd expect to see samples of their work.

If I was hiring an artist, I'd expect them to have a portfolio on Behance or Artstation.

etc. etc.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#242

Post by signatoremo »

fnimick wrote: post #132
el_benhameen wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this was intentional, but you missed the third category: people who love to write code but only have time to do it for the paycheck.

Oh, I think it is very intentional, and the whole point is to not say it out loud. If you don't have time to code for "love", you won't have time to jump at unreasonable requests and pull tons of crunch time overtime either. Given the choice, companies would love to hire someone with no responsibilities outside of work, this is just a legal way of filtering out parents, people with dependents etc

> If you don't have time to code for "love", you won't have time to jump at unreasonable requests and pull tons of crunch time overtime either.

As opposed to doing leetcode? when you also have to spend time outside of work to practice and memorize them?

If you are looking for a new job, you have to invest time and effort. One way or another. Unless you are a known quality.

Can you suggest a fair way to evaluate a candidate?

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#243

Post by sgarland »

hcks wrote: post #43

I don’t get why people always hate on leetcodes. Anyone can train and get good at it, it makes interviews short and not time consuming, it’s a standard accros industry so you can focus on studying it and not have to read one book for each company you apply to. What would be a better alternative? Hiring based on connections? Take home assignments that takes 15 hours to complete? Domain specific knowledge grilling?

> Domain specific knowledge grilling?

Why would you not do this? If I’m hiring for a specific role, I want to make sure they are good at that role. Doubly so if their resume states they’re an expert at something - let’s find out.

This doesn’t need to be hostile or one-upping, but to prove someone’s actual depth of knowledge in an area they claim to have expertise in.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#244

Post by closeparen »

gambiting wrote: post #233
closeparen wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not talking like government security clearance here. If you have some major legal or financial issue in your life then maybe it depends what exactly the BGC turns up or how it's adjudicated. If not, there's basically zero chance it's going to affect anything. Just a formality from the candidate's perspective.

If it's just a formality, why not do it before you start the job then?

If it’s just a formality, why would you delay the new hire’s start by several weeks while it’s pending?

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#245

Post by popularonion »

pedrosorio wrote: post #187
wishpishh wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are willing to spend your younger, healthier years grinding just to (potentially, there are so many things that are outside of your control that can go wrong no matter your work ethic) get a few more years of retirement at the end of your life - then sure. Grind away.

These interviews are not designed to require "spending your younger, healthier years grinding". They require grokking a fairly small set of concepts and being comfortable using them to problem solve under time pressure. That's it. Hearing some people, you'd think they ask you to memorize chess openings or something.

That's because it is memorizing chess openings, or basically the same thing.

Most Leetcode Mediums fall into the category where the type of solution is obvious (sliding window/graph search/etc), and the code isn't hard to write, but there's a "trick" embedded in the problem and if you don't already know the trick, you're never going to figure it out in 30 minutes.

So the best strategy is to find a "Top N Leetcodes" list like Blind 75 and just memorize them. Of course you can't expect those exact questions to come up in every interview, but having a few dozen solutions already memorized should let you do some pattern recognition and lower your cognitive load while you're trying to figure out what that problem's trick is.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#246

Post by popularonion »

vunderba wrote: post #241
indymike wrote: post #69

We use this process, and it has helped us hire some great developers without having to use third party staffing and headhunters: 1. Post well written job post on major job boards. 2. Immediately reply via text to every applicant (yes, we have opt in on the application) 3. Initial screening including several knock-out questions via text. Immediately let candidate know if they are not selected and why. 4. 30 minute can…

Man, I forgot how much people on hacker news absolutely hate the idea of side projects, a.k.a. passion for engineering and an interest in creating new things. Somehow the implication is that if you build even one little side project for fun that means that you spend every single hour of your time coding. It's such a reductio ad absurdum argument. If I was hiring an architect, I'd expect to see samples of their work.…

It sounds like you have the mentality that everybody must be a front end developer.

I work in a domain that's very much not front end development, I've participated in interview rounds for at least 100 different candidates, I don't think I've seen "side projects" ever be a factor in someone getting hired, not even once.

The one thing that did put an applicant way ahead of the pack was contributing to open source projects relevant to our domain. It didn't have to be anything super duper impressive, we just liked to see a history of submitting meaningful PRs and getting them through code review.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#247

Post by physPop »

joeframbach wrote: post #82
indymike wrote: post #69

We use this process, and it has helped us hire some great developers without having to use third party staffing and headhunters: 1. Post well written job post on major job boards. 2. Immediately reply via text to every applicant (yes, we have opt in on the application) 3. Initial screening including several knock-out questions via text. Immediately let candidate know if they are not selected and why. 4. 30 minute can…

I can bring my kids in but I don't think I could tell you how they work. I've been in this industry for almost 20 years, but I don't have side projects, because, well, see above.

You’ve never written a utility at work to help that isn’t part of your core work? You’ve never had a side project in 20 years ?

Maybe your view would change if you were actively looking for work? Spend a week on some fun project while taking a break from resume writing.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#248

Post by physPop »

ziddoap wrote: post #195
allo37 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes you can declare "self-learning", depending on the order. But anyways, that's not really my point: My point is just that in professions it's not uncommon to be expected to perform some kind of extracurricular activities related to your job. Often software "engineers" aren't members of a professional order, but I'd argue that the idea still applies. Tbh learning by working on a hobby project is way more appea…

> My point is just that in professions it's not uncommon to be expected to perform some kind of extracurricular activities related to your job. If my employer _expects_ me to do something related to my job, I get paid for it. I really wish we'd all stop normalizing working for free.

I don’t understand your view. How do you improve your skill in the craft ? Or learn new technologies ? You wait for your employer to tell you to learn something ? That’s a sure fire way to always be behind the curve.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#249

Post by ziddoap »

physPop wrote: post #248
ziddoap wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is just that in professions it's not uncommon to be expected to perform some kind of extracurricular activities related to your job. If my employer _expects_ me to do something related to my job, I get paid for it. I really wish we'd all stop normalizing working for free.

I don’t understand your view. How do you improve your skill in the craft ? Or learn new technologies ? You wait for your employer to tell you to learn something ? That’s a sure fire way to always be behind the curve.

I don't understand how you reached that conclusion.

If it is a personal interest or hobby, I do it on my own time. If it is something required for work, I do it on company time. If there is a lot of overlap, I do it whenever.

Other than that, I learn and improve like any other person does.

Continuing education credits, which is what started this subthread, is something required by the professional body that my company wants me to be a member of. So they happen on company time and dime.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#250

Post by pedrosorio »

popularonion wrote: post #245
pedrosorio wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These interviews are not designed to require "spending your younger, healthier years grinding". They require grokking a fairly small set of concepts and being comfortable using them to problem solve under time pressure. That's it. Hearing some people, you'd think they ask you to memorize chess openings or something.

That's because it is memorizing chess openings, or basically the same thing. Most Leetcode Mediums fall into the category where the type of solution is obvious (sliding window/graph search/etc), and the code isn't hard to write, but there's a "trick" embedded in the problem and if you don't already know the trick, you're never going to figure it out in 30 minutes. So the best strategy is to find a "Top N Leetcodes" l…

> Most Leetcode Mediums (...) there's a "trick" embedded in the problem and if you don't already know the trick, you're never going to figure it out in 30 minutes

I am sorry to say, this is just not true.

> but having a few dozen solutions already memorized should let you do some pattern recognition

Chess opening memorization is pure "remember the moves, play the moves" that's it. No thinking or pattern recognition involved.

If this is about being able to solve problems by generalizing from having seen a few dozen solutions, then I don't think "memorizing" is the appropriate term here, at all.

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