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Leisure Suit Larry

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Re: Leisure Suit Larry

#51

Post by dagw »

DanBC wrote: post #38
mkramlich wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a woman chooses to be a prostitute, and chooses to engage with a "John", then heck yes it's consensual. That's what that word means . And is there plenty of evidence that some women choose to be prostitutes (no gun pointed to their head, they have other employment options, etc.)? Heck yes. Not even controversial. Are some women forced to do it? Yes, of course. So in those cases it is not consensual. If it's not co…

People trafficking is a huge business with profits for organised crime of over $30billion. Significant numbers of women are forced into sex work in countries across the world. ( http://www.unglobalcompact.org/docs/issues_doc/labour/Forced... ) Even if the person is not trafficked there are consent issues around addiction: Can a person addicted to a substance make a free informed choice? Here's some research showing t…

In practice there are often horrible problems

Indeed there often are, and those problems desperately need to be solved. The first step in solving this problem would be to compare the situation in the US, with the situation in countries where prostitution is legal and in the open. Are things better there? If so are there lessons that can be drawn from this? Trafficking is abhorrent and must be fought at all fronts, but forcing things further and further underground is not the solution for bringing the problem to light. Make it legal, bring it out into the open and regulate it. It won't make things perfect, and I'm not so naive that I think it would completely end all trafficking, but I do believe it will make things a whole lot better.

Re: Leisure Suit Larry

#52

Post by muyuu »

_sh wrote: post #39
tbsdy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow... according to Wikipedia, the women on the box were all employees of On-Line Systems, the precursor to Sierra. One of them is a bookkeeper! I'd be curious as to how the convinced them to pose naked on the box.

The Digital Antiquarian wrote some interesting blog posts on On-Line Systems and Softporn back in February (with screenshots!). This blog is a great read for info on this and other early adventure games and their creators. http://www.filfre.net/2012/02/

The 80s were awesome.

Re: Leisure Suit Larry

#53

Post by potatolicious »

res0nat0r wrote: post #47
potatolicious wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Lighten up!" Do we remember the last time that exact phrase came up as a topic on HN?

The difference is this is a cartoon computer game, not the workplace.

The line between media and real life is never really that wide. FWIW, I'm not sure how to feel about this - it seems juvenile and somewhat insensitive, but I have no desire to censor it.

But as a racial minority I'll say that media bleeds into real life plenty often - even in the most liberal, diverse parts of this country I'm either supposed to A) beat someone up with mad kung fu or B) be really good at math and talk nerdy. There's a compounding and cyclical effect in media portrayals of anything - it begets more skewed perceptions which begets more skewed portrayals.

Media and real life reinforce each other - fiction is not consequence-free.

It's easy to sit back and ask everyone to just take the joke in good humor - until you end up on the wrong end of it. I'm not a woman, nor a sex worker, nor someone resembling Larry, but I've seen enough of these issues to know that when complaints like these arise, there's most often a valid rhyme and reason behind it.

Re: Leisure Suit Larry

#54

Post by tbsdy »

dagw wrote: post #41
tbsdy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with i386. There's a pretty disturbing screenshot where Larry says that "this is the hooker's seedy bedroom. The bed's a mess, so is the hooker!". http://www.replaygamesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/tum...

Which bit to you find disturbing? The fact that the game acknowledges the existence of hookers, the fact that the game draws attention to the fact that many hookers work out of pretty seedy bedrooms or the fact that the game draws attention that many hookers end up looking less than their best. Would you have preferred "this is the hooker's fabulous bedroom. The bed's perfectly clean, so is the hooker!"

Try not to use begging the question as an argument.

But what makes me sad is the second part. Because it's in a game, and it's done to be funny.

I'm not shocked by the existence of hookers. I should be, but I'm desensitized.

Re: Leisure Suit Larry

#55

Post by kabuks »

mkramlich wrote: post #25
i386 wrote: post #13

The game has no major female characters who aren't hookers. No arguing that LSL has its place in gaming history, but it doesn't have a place in a future that is trying its hardest to remove objectification of women from society. EDIT: The down voting button is not a disagree button. If you disagree, reply!

In my future, sex is OK. Jokes are OK. Playfulness is OK. And hookers probably still exist, regardless of whether they should or not. Also, I think humans are pretty much hard-wired to objectify sexual interests. And there are places and situations where it's okay to express it and act on it, and places where it is less so. But not it's some black-or-white thing where it's always bad or always good. Is it OK in compu…

I like your version of the future, and would love to live in it.

However in my present, every ninety seconds, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted. Tens of thousands of girls and women are trafficked for sex, and one out of 3 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

Our society is fucked up around sex. It's not LSL's fault, but it certainly isn't helping.

It pisses me off that someone is trying to raise 500 thousand dollars to put LSL on an iphone. Is it their right? Yes. But it pisses me off.

Re: Leisure Suit Larry

#56

Post by crystalis »

tbsdy wrote: post #54
dagw wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which bit to you find disturbing? The fact that the game acknowledges the existence of hookers, the fact that the game draws attention to the fact that many hookers work out of pretty seedy bedrooms or the fact that the game draws attention that many hookers end up looking less than their best. Would you have preferred "this is the hooker's fabulous bedroom. The bed's perfectly clean, so is the hooker!"

Try not to use begging the question as an argument. But what makes me sad is the second part. Because it's in a game, and it's done to be funny. I'm not shocked by the existence of hookers. I should be, but I'm desensitized.

Oh yeah he asserted that question so hard. unf.

Re: Leisure Suit Larry

#57

Post by guelo »

potatolicious wrote: post #44
guelo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extreme violence and gore? No problem! Consensual sex between adults? Disgusting!

I don't see where he claimed extreme violence and gore is okay. Ridiculous straw man is ridiculous.

I just assumed he's not on a crusade against the entire current gaming industry.

Re: Leisure Suit Larry

#58

Post by Lazare »

kabuks wrote: post #55
mkramlich wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my future, sex is OK. Jokes are OK. Playfulness is OK. And hookers probably still exist, regardless of whether they should or not. Also, I think humans are pretty much hard-wired to objectify sexual interests. And there are places and situations where it's okay to express it and act on it, and places where it is less so. But not it's some black-or-white thing where it's always bad or always good. Is it OK in compu…

I like your version of the future, and would love to live in it. However in my present, every ninety seconds, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted. Tens of thousands of girls and women are trafficked for sex, and one out of 3 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Our society is fucked up around sex. It's not LSL's fault, but it certainly isn't helping. It pisses me off that someone is trying…

I'm actually a little confused. You list some very negative things, which I strongly deplore, and then you say it "isn't LSL's fault, but it certainly isn't helping". Those are, indeed, very negative things! But...

A lot of things can be described as not being at fault, but not helping reduce the number sexual assaults in America. Apple pie. The Toyota corporation. Cows. Vegetarians. The colour blue. If LSL really isn't at fault, as you say, then why is it problematic that it isn't helping? Just because it has sexual content? I don't understand. Doesn't your criticism apply to, well...almost everything in life? (But especially almost every PG or higher rates movie and a huge number of television shows? Most of which have vastly higher budgets?)

(There's also, of course, the question of whether this is even a useful avenue of attack. There is some - confusing and contradictory, admittedly - evidence that violent games reduce violent crime, and pornography reduces sexual assaults. We have a lot of experience trying to repress basic human nature, and we have very little evidence that it ever works.)

Edit @rogerbruan: I've certainly been accused of being overly literal before. :) Still...

The original comment said that LSL isn't at fault. You're saying that it is a part of problem. I'm not sure how to square those two ideas. Either LSL fosters sexism, rape culture, and sexual assaults, or it doesn't. If it does, then it's at least partly at fault for these ills, and if it's not, then it's not bad for society, right? Still, I think you're broadly right: The original commenter was trying to blame LSL, and just phrased it oddly.

Re: Leisure Suit Larry

#59

Post by Lazare »

bishnu wrote: post #27
i386 wrote: post #13

The game has no major female characters who aren't hookers. No arguing that LSL has its place in gaming history, but it doesn't have a place in a future that is trying its hardest to remove objectification of women from society. EDIT: The down voting button is not a disagree button. If you disagree, reply!

I find it quite disturbing that so many HN posters think sex with a prostitute is consensual.

I'm taking my karma in my hands, but...

I find it disturbing how close minded and parochial you are. I live in a liberal Western democracy. Several years ago our female Prime Minister pushed through laws completely legalizing prostitution. It's just a job; maybe not a very nice job, but a fairly high paying one. They pay tax, are protected by police, and have to follow health and safety laws. And given our generous welfare net, nobody is ever even forced into prostitution to eat.

Do you think getting a haircut at a barbershop is consensual? If so, then what's the difference?

Your idea of prostitution is filtered through the lens of your own experiences. In America and other repressed countries, it's probably a good idea to assume that prostitution is not consensual; there is indeed coercion and violence, which is absolutely inexcusable and disgusting. But America is not the world, and you need to drop the rediculous sweeping universal statements.

Re: Leisure Suit Larry

#60

Post by edanm »

guelo wrote: post #57
potatolicious wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see where he claimed extreme violence and gore is okay. Ridiculous straw man is ridiculous.

I just assumed he's not on a crusade against the entire current gaming industry.

If the op isn't, does it matter? Not actively fighting something is not the same as agreeing to it. Does the fact that the op doesn't fight for human rights in Africa make them unable to fight for anything else?
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