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Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

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Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#331

Post by diogenes4 »

ensignavenger wrote: post #184
mattmaroon wrote: post #119

I plan live events these days and the off duty cop shakedown is so real. Good luck getting really any permit. “Oh you’re hiring private security? We don’t think your security plan is sufficient to keep everyone safe.”

I would record that conversation and send it to the FBI, and if that didn't get any traction, the Press.

Neither party is obligated to the interests of the people living in this country. I'm not saying this is necessarily bad advice but there are some problems that require actual citizens to do something aside from vote.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#332

Post by mattmaroon »

ensignavenger wrote: post #184
mattmaroon wrote: post #119

I plan live events these days and the off duty cop shakedown is so real. Good luck getting really any permit. “Oh you’re hiring private security? We don’t think your security plan is sufficient to keep everyone safe.”

I would record that conversation and send it to the FBI, and if that didn't get any traction, the Press.

Yeah, I mean, nobody knows how to skirt the law better than cops, and they of course never exactly phrase it in such a way as to be extortion. It’s bullshit, and I’ve talk to people from all over the country and I think it’s pretty pervasive. But my business relies on permits that they sign, and it just feels like I could probably spend a lot of time and money and ruin myself fighting it, over what is really a relatively small tax.

I suppose that’s how they continue to get away with it. We’re all hoping someone else falls on their sword.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#333

Post by PumpkinSpice »

edrxty wrote: post #322
NullInvictus wrote: post #310

You have to have been raised pretty sweetly to not have known this kind of racketeering was a 'thing' for a very long time. Pressure to hire cops is rampant. 'rent-a-cop' is not aimed at the fact that security companies apply aggressive mimicry to their people, but that these people are themselves often off-duty cops. Security companies are strongly "encouraged" to hire off-duty cops, and find themselves left out to…

It's pretty eye opening to watch every bill pushed through in the name of firearm safety turning out to have massive exemptions for off duty and retired cops. They're such a powerful political force that it's outright expected they should have a disproportionate ability to deliver force even after they're retired .

My favorite part is that California has a roster of handguns approved for sale. The pretext for its existence is consumer safety (it is entirely separate from bans on stuff like assault weapons or large magazines), but the actual effect is that you have a very limited selection in stores, and most of the designs are very dated.

But if you're a police officer? You get an exemption! Apparently, the state has no regard for your safety as a consumer, and allows you to buy whatever you want...

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#334

Post by edrxty »

PumpkinSpice wrote: post #333
edrxty wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty eye opening to watch every bill pushed through in the name of firearm safety turning out to have massive exemptions for off duty and retired cops. They're such a powerful political force that it's outright expected they should have a disproportionate ability to deliver force even after they're retired .

My favorite part is that California has a roster of handguns approved for sale. The pretext for its existence is consumer safety (it is entirely separate from bans on stuff like assault weapons or large magazines), but the actual effect is that you have a very limited selection in stores, and most of the designs are very dated. But if you're a police officer? You get an exemption! Apparently, the state has no regard…

And importantly, as a cop, you're allowed to buy off-roster (modern) handguns and then turn around and sell them to the public at a profit. You have to be slightly careful because the ATF doesn't like non dealers buying and selling tons of guns, but it's a huge racket where cops will make a few thousand dollars a year selling modern/desirable guns to the pubilc (through FFLs).

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#335

Post by thmsths »

et-al wrote: post #323
arthurofbabylon wrote: post #175

Already, police do this exact shakedown on cities. There are numerous incidents (anecdotal) of US police threatening city officials to reduce enforcement during election cycles, demanding increases in police force budget. Broadly, the US needs to eliminate corruption. There are many broken feedback loops right now from the grand (lobbying and campaign finance) to the minuscule (niche price fixing, bribery, police-ran…

The SF Police Department bombed the mayor's house in 1975: "In early August 1975, the SFPD went on strike over a pay dispute, violating a California law prohibiting police from striking. The city quickly obtained a court order declaring the strike illegal and enjoining the SFPD back to work. The court messenger delivering the order was met with violence and the SFPD continued to strike... The ACLU obtained a court or…

Very naive question: why did Federal law enforcement not get involved?

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#336

Post by mardifoufs »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #47
h2odragon wrote: post #33

I know of a local Volunteer fire Dept that went that way; started having the head guy and a couple of his big cousins go around and tell people how much the VFD needed support, and how flammable their house or business looked. Couple months after that started, the guy's house burned down. I heard the trucks came out twice, the second time there were more people responding and the police got into the guy's barn with a…

Firefighter arson is a relatively well known phenomenon. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/fires-set-by-firefigh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefighter_arson

I'm curious, how do they actually figure out who is behind a forest fire? Or even suspect that it was a criminal act in the first place. Finding who is behind a burnt house is one thing, but a whole forest is a lot of terrain to cover for proof!

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#337

Post by uoaei »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #324
elcritch wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could say he was giving the owners a chance at recovering some value rather than nothing. Also, it’s probably a more apt analogy for modern US hospitals: when you’re having say a heart attack you can’t exactly “price shop”.

But the slanted history point of view is that he started fires, so he can buy the distressed property. hospitals don't have an incentive to give you a heart attack.

Hospitals absolutely do have an incentive, what they don't have is a means of triggering one that includes plausible deniability.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#338

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

yterdy wrote: post #254
claar wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I assume you don't live in the US midwest Bible belt? A friendly officer drove 10 minutes to pull out a slim jim and unlock my car for me. I thanked him. Normal stuff. A lady's car broke down in an intersection. A police car put their lights on to keep us safe while 3 or 4 random people pushed the car to safety. I often call dispatch to report accidents, debris on the road, or anything else that would warrant pol…

>May I assume you don't live in the US midwest Bible belt? You can assume they're not white. (Or that they've experienced economic insecurity.)

I grew up white trash in Indiana. I never really drank, didn't do drugs, but the sort of shit that I'd get pulled over for is hilarious now that I have 30 years distance.

The other guy's comment where he's telling his feel good stories, they serve more as a sort of mythology about heroic cops that people tell themselves, they're not even proper anecdotes. He wants to believe, so he tells us some stories, and it doesn't much matter if they're true. They're what you want to hear.

But if you care to check out the reality, go see what they're doing about burglaries in some hotspot. Go ask someone with a stolen bike or car what treatment they do get. Go check on where the resources, time, and manpower are spent. It's not on any of the crimes you care about. But I suppose a cop doing the AAA thing for free somehow makes up for that.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#339

Post by ensignavenger »

mattmaroon wrote: post #332
ensignavenger wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would record that conversation and send it to the FBI, and if that didn't get any traction, the Press.

Yeah, I mean, nobody knows how to skirt the law better than cops, and they of course never exactly phrase it in such a way as to be extortion. It’s bullshit, and I’ve talk to people from all over the country and I think it’s pretty pervasive. But my business relies on permits that they sign, and it just feels like I could probably spend a lot of time and money and ruin myself fighting it, over what is really a relati…

There are certainly some locales that have a larger reputation for this sort of things than others.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#340

Post by ok_dad »

Every place where they do road work in Hawaii they require one or more patrol officers just sitting there in a car with lights on doing nothing. Also, I’m not sure of the details, but most cops in Hawaii seem to drive personal vehicles with lights attached. Literally what you see in “Hawaii five o”, with cops driving around in a 4Runner or a Charger or something.
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