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Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

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Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#181

Post by DerekBickerton »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #8

The author advocates using encryption as an ethical duty, OK. But it would not be an effective form of civil disobedience. This is unrealistic: > We should all use PGP, SSL or equivalent tools; VPNs, Tor and/or SSH tunnelling; IPFS, or other distributed file systems — and ditch proprietary OS's in favour of Linux or truly free Android distros. This is not anything the general public, for whom today their mobile phone…

And all this privacy tooling is a bandaid solution to the problem of privacy in the digital realm. It addresses problems after the fact rather than addressing the underlying symptom which is dragnet surveillance, surveillance capitalism, and people farming / i.e using people as a datapoint to power an AD engine.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#182

Post by lazide »

_boffin_ wrote: post #151
lazide wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people look at things like the Stasi and think - the problem with it was who was in charge, not that it existed. We’re the good guys so it would be a good thing. Not a bad thing. The problem is, they’re almost always the absolute worst to deal with, as almost any evil is excusable when done ‘for the right reasons’ or when ‘we’re the good guys’, where selfish evil at least sometimes takes a break or feels bad. An…

Who knew that after all these years, it comes to light that the Stasi only did it to protect the children..,

It was always clear it was to protect Soviet children.

Notably, the Stasi was never very effective at many tasks. It definitely turned a blind eye to organized crime, among many other things.

Great at destroying a people though so they can’t be a threat against you though. Apparently.

The Germans I know have noted that it’s still quite clear who grew up in East Germany. And the economy itself is no comparison either.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#183

Post by diego_sandoval »

crazygringo wrote: post #27

I can sympathize with the general notion that more encryption is better, even if I wouldn't go to the extreme of declaring it a duty . But the author just completely lost me at: > We should all use PGP, SSL or equivalent tools; VPNs, Tor and/or SSH tunnelling; IPFS, or other distributed file systems — and ditch proprietary OS's in favour of Linux or truly free Android distros... Those tools and techniques should ceas…

The fact that it's unrealistic doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to achieve it. And the first step towards achieving something big is to state it as a goal when it's still unrealistic.

At some point, going to the moon was unrealistic. Right now, ending wars is unrealistic, but it's also absolutely necessary.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#184

Post by [deleted] »

anonym29 wrote: post #91
madmads wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably the most self-aggrandizing interpretation. Could it be that other people have other priorities or interests rather than spending their time figuring out how to obtain digital privacy without compromising in the areas they care about? No surely it's their low "cognitive capital" /s

You are very fortunate to never had the displeasure of having to interact with profoundly stupid people. Not ignorant, not uneducated, but genuinely stupid and slow people. E.g., People for whom significant, immediate, unexpected mechanical feedback in operating something simple, like window blinds, wouldn't cause them to consider whether they might be doing something wrong, and instead continue operariting the blind…

[deleted]

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#185

Post by nvy »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #5

> you would be morally obliged to disobey In days of yore my CS law module was taught by a QC - that's a high ranking barrister in the UK - who explained the world of difference between the "The Rule of Law" and "the law" in a class called "jurisprudence". Rule of Law (capitalised conceptual) is there as permanent ground truth in contrast to the ephemeral du-jure laws. At times I still struggle with that profound cou…

>Rule of Law (capitalised conceptual) is there as permanent ground truth in contrast to the ephemeral du-jure laws.

That's a strange way of articulating it. The Rule of Law is simply the concept that a society is ruled (hence the name) by the body of law that it passes. That, quite literally, the ruler of the land is the Law.

It's that simple!

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#186

Post by WolfeReader »

saulrh wrote: post #178
WolfeReader wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only reason we currently have any message encryption is because a few tech companies have made the decision to protect as many as possible by releasing products which enable it (iOS, Whatsapp, and now texts via Google Messages)." Completely false. Phil Zimmerman gave us PGP for free in 1991, and numerous open encryption standards now belong to the general public. Giving credit to Apple, Meta, and Google for this…

A technology being published does not mean that it is available, especially for technologies that require uptake by the general public. And, well, PGP and GPG have reputations for such awful usability that they _might as well not exist_ as far as the general public is concerned. As another comment here mentions, just look at its uptake numbers! There are probalby more people qualified to do open-head neurosurgery tha…

The only "qualification" to use PGP is to read the manual.

You claim that _every single person on the planet_ can use the corporate apps, which implies that every person is able and willing to buy a device which can run them. Not everyone can buy a smartphone, and not everyone is willing to buy one for various reasons, but anyone with access to ANY computer can run PGP.

As long as computers exist, we'll have PGP. The other messengers rely on centralized infrastructure which could go down by accident or by hostile actors. Even Signal, which I love and recommend - and was not mentioned by the post I was replying to earlier (why?) - could easily end its services one day.

The wrong thinking I see in your post and the earlier one is this:

1. Lots of smart people create encryption schemes

2. Phil Zimmerman invents and releases PGP, giving the power of encryption to everyone with a computer.

3. Years pass...

4. In the smartphone era, Google, Facebook, and Apple incorporate encryption into their apps, in order to entice users to use their platforms and take their friends with them.

5. You and that other guy are all like, "Praise be to Google and Meta and Apple for giving us the power of encryption!"

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#187

Post by quitit »

jessenaser wrote: post #28
eviks wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often does this easiest way win you an argument?

The reason is a lot of people think: 1. My government will use this tech only for good. 2. I don't live in China, so why should I care about that. If you say that your current government loses freedom and how do you go back to freedom, then they think differently. It makes them think they need freedom now in hardware and software, so they can go back to freedom, instead of being permanently stuck in non-freedom.

>1. My government will use this tech only for good.

Precisely, and even now there are a steady stream of examples of people in power using tech for no good, here's just a tiny snippet of examples where police had mis-used databases to spy, stalk and harass:

USA:

N.J. cop used police databases to stalk ex-girlfriend, investigators say https://www.nj.com/monmouth/2023/01/nj-cop-used-police-datab...

Officer Fired for Allegedly Using Police Database to Stalk, Harass Women https://www.newsweek.com/officer-fired-allegedly-using-polic...

Australia:

Former policeman accused of using force database to stalk ex-wife and girlfriend https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/former-policeman...

Former federal police officer faces new charges over stalking of ex-girlfriend https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6138318/former-federa...

(Note the two above articles are not the same person)

UK:

Met police officer 'used CCTV cameras to stalk his ex-girlfriend after telling her to take up sex work to pay her bills' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11868575/Met-police...

Creepy cop saw attractive woman on the road and 'looked up her license plate number so he could stalk her on Facebook' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178556/Officer-Jef...

The more you look, the more you find - and this barely scratches the surface of ways that systems that hold personal data can be abused.

When designing any new law, we must always consider the fact that there is no such thing as "good guys" and "bad guys". The potential for abuse must be extremely limited and the benefits of the law should legitimately outweigh the potential abuses.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#188

Post by diego_sandoval »

EliRivers wrote: post #55
jessenaser wrote: post #6

The easiest way to combat "you have nothing to hide" is if you were in a country taken over by dictators or terrorists, those leaders don't care and cannot be reasoned with. They will use the backdoor at any time to punish dissent or any misalignment with their rules. And if people say, "but our country is free", tell them that if your country was not, how would you get back to freedom? Is your software and hardware…

The easiest way to combat "you have nothing to hide"... How about saying I have lots to hide. I want to hide what I had for breakfast. I want to hide what book I'm reading. I want to hide what time I went to bed. I want to hide how many times I go to the gym each week. I have lots and lots to hide. I am not the property of the state and neither are my actions; I have lots to hide.

"I have everything to hide" sounds like a good slogan to advocate for privacy.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#189

Post by landemva »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #8

The author advocates using encryption as an ethical duty, OK. But it would not be an effective form of civil disobedience. This is unrealistic: > We should all use PGP, SSL or equivalent tools; VPNs, Tor and/or SSH tunnelling; IPFS, or other distributed file systems — and ditch proprietary OS's in favour of Linux or truly free Android distros. This is not anything the general public, for whom today their mobile phone…

> SSH tunnelling ... distributed file systems ... ditch proprietary OS

Yes it goes into arm-waving rant well beyond benefit of encrypt/private data.

SSH tunneling can wrap communication in another layer of encryption but so what. Distributed filesystem is not a magical privacy sauce. Proprietary OS (commercial or my home-developed POSIX compliant OS?) is bad how? While telemetry by commercial OS may be a concern it is not the same concern as me keeping my files private with encryption.

The author slips toward Richard Stallman activism about related and wide-ranging issues, which detracts from achieving engagement by average person. https://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#190

Post by fsflover »

psychoslave wrote: post #85
globular-toast wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's unrealistic about it? I've been doing it for more then a decade.

And do you think all of your non-tech-savvy relative would go for it?

They already use https for almost everything, don't they? It wasn't the case from the beginning.
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