Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security • Hacker News Board

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#301

Post by thomastjeffery » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 7:11 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #169

nanidin wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a Walmart in my metro area that is responsible for like 80% of all police calls within their municipality. This is the same Walmart that leeches off society in other ways like paying sub-living wages so that employees need to rely on social safety nets to survive. I'm not sure if they have to hire private security, but this is a prime example of a business that should be securing itself or changing location.

Walmart hourly salaries start at 14-19 an hour depending on location. They also abide by all the rules. What are you comparing it to? Mom and pop shops that have kids working there in getting paid under the counter at a lower wage? https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/walmart-cuts-starting-wage-ne...

I assume they are comparing it to its direct competitors. Target is the main one.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#302

Post by NickC25 » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 7:13 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #292

NickC25 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ITT: people defending the actions of a corporation owned by a family worth over 230 billion USD. Businesses should expect that society protects them, sure. But those same businesses can't then go and bribe the government to cut worker protection laws, labor laws, can't slash wages and expect that the government covers the costs of labor, etc... If Walmart paid their workers lavishly, gave them huge pensions, didn't e…

We are criticizing the government, not defending Walmart. The idea of equal protection under the law is much bigger and more important than a corporation that sucks. Every business should have equal access to law enforcement regardless of how big they are. If law enforcement sucks, it is simply not any private company’s job to address the problem.

If a corporation donates heavily to anti-government think tanks, funds several union-busting operations, sponsors politicians that write laws that would exempt that corporation from having to pay tax.....then we're not criticizing the government, we're calling the corporation out for antisocial behavior.

If I run a company, make bank, and then use that money to engage in lobbying that would see public services cut significantly, I shouldn't get to whine that those same public services (which includes policing) should be protecting my private interests first and foremost.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#303

Post by s1artibartfast » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #243

BWStearns wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a good way to get your business license paperwork lost. Edit: not sure why the downvotes here. If you’re a small business owner you are trying to get through your day and your day gets a lot longer if you piss off casually corrupt city officials who can shut your business down by slow walking needed paperwork. This is a group that happily added 200% to your operating costs via ransoming your business license f…

I think that if what you were describing was true, a federal DOJ investigation would result in a lot of people spending time in federal prison, and your friend walking away with enough money that your friend can drone all he wants from a private beach in the Bahamas while you both sip mai tais. So yes, they can retaliate against your friend. And your friend can retaliate against them and the difference is that their…

Why? If the law is on the books I don't see anyone doing time

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#304

Post by chaps » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 7:17 PM UTC

1123581321 wrote: post #256

chaps wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share more on the shotgun stuff? Was that recently?

There was a famous case about their confessions obtained through torture. https://chicagotorture.org/reparations/history/ That link doesn't mention the guns in mouths, but I remember that technique from at least one article about those Chicago police.

Thanks. I'm familiar with the Burge case, just didn't know shotguns were involved. Vile.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#305

Post by AlgorithmicTime » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 7:18 PM UTC

lainga wrote: post #182

droopyEyelids wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefighter arson is a relatively well known phenomenon. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/fires-set-by-firefigh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefighter_arson

Oh my goodness, that FBI behavioural profile on the second link. "We're looking for a suspect who's depressed... alcoholic... and HOMOSEXUAL"

[dead]

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#306

Post by WalterBright » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 7:27 PM UTC

NickC25 wrote: post #274

WalterBright wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And provided inexpensive goods to the masses.

Walmart is able to provide cheap goods because it can strong-arm providers into taking a loss or operating at a break-even point just for the chance to sell at Walmart. It can also provide cheap goods because they pay their workers jack shit and instruct employees to use government subsidized healthcare and insurance. It's totally possible to provide good pay, healthcare, etc... to employees, still have healthy enoug…

1. Nobody makes providers sell thru Walmart.

2. Nobody makes anyone buy from Walmart.

3. Nobody makes anyone work for Walmart.

4. Anybody is free to spin up a competitor to Walmart.

5. Walmart is not responsible for government wealth transfer programs.

> It's totally possible to provide [...]

You and anyone else are free to do so.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#307

Post by Daviey » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #293

Daviey wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree, some jobs are what I would consider protected. Particularly, when they are literally wearing their main job uniform and exercising their same powers! For example, in the UK the Police are technically servants of the crown, and are prohibited from industrial action / striking - this means there are different from a regular job. Do you feel members of the military should be allowed to have weekend jobs,…

Yes military and SEC are and should be free to moonlight. It is extremely common for military to have two jobs, especially the military reserve. The only provision is that they can't have conflicts of interest.

Are they allowed to wear their military uniform at the side gig and exercise privilege given to them in a private paying role?

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#308

Post by CSMastermind » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

Carioca wrote: post #271

As a Brazilian, I'm here to tell you: that's how it starts. If this isn't curbed, you'll have a presidential candidate thoroughly linked with them in ~20 years

This has been happening in the US for more than a century now. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be stopped but our government system is pretty well designed to prevent things like this from rolling up to a national level.

The bigger call out is that people who are trying to vest more power in the federal government should look at stories like this and realize that it's a bad idea.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#309

Post by stevenwoo » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 7:36 PM UTC

arthurofbabylon wrote: post #175

Already, police do this exact shakedown on cities. There are numerous incidents (anecdotal) of US police threatening city officials to reduce enforcement during election cycles, demanding increases in police force budget. Broadly, the US needs to eliminate corruption. There are many broken feedback loops right now from the grand (lobbying and campaign finance) to the minuscule (niche price fixing, bribery, police-ran…

The Supreme Court is responsible for a lot of this, it has institutionalized immunity for law enforcement and prosecution and unlimited corporate money in politics so that it would require overriding that lever of power which doesn’t seem likely since democrats just rolled over when the gop wouldn’t allow Obama to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#310

Post by NullInvictus » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 7:37 PM UTC

You have to have been raised pretty sweetly to not have known this kind of racketeering was a 'thing' for a very long time. Pressure to hire cops is rampant. 'rent-a-cop' is not aimed at the fact that security companies apply aggressive mimicry to their people, but that these people are themselves often off-duty cops. Security companies are strongly "encouraged" to hire off-duty cops, and find themselves left out to dry or otherwise 'convinced' if they try to resist.

Before you add 'Why don't [you|they] do...' responses, recognize for a moment that the police in the U.S. are largely out of control, have undue control of local government and politics, and have an ideology that enforces self-righteousness and an 'enemy at the gates' siege mentality, and oh yeah, are able to apply violence at a level unmatched in society. These are not polite people, and the way one 'deals' with them has far more in common with radical militias rather than state bureaucrats. If you haven't encountered that, you're just lucky enough to have never threatened their interests.