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Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

minnesotareformer.com

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Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#291

Post by shipscode »

taway_6PplYu5 wrote: post #267
shipscode wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a gun pointed at you is a threat to your life, not “the money of your boss”. Minimum wage or not, their life has value, and they should be to defend it by meeting deadly force with deadly force.

Your scenario starts with a gun pointed at the person. How much training do you believe is required such that an otherwise ordinary person "win" a gunfight when their gun is holstered and the opponent already has them in their aim?

Less training than dodging a bullet when an opponent pulls the trigger.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#292

Post by sneak »

NickC25 wrote: post #187
ahtihn wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the US was like the most advanced nation in the world? And businesses are supposed to pay for their own security instead of relying on police? What next? Families of murder victims should cover the cost of the investigation?

ITT: people defending the actions of a corporation owned by a family worth over 230 billion USD. Businesses should expect that society protects them, sure. But those same businesses can't then go and bribe the government to cut worker protection laws, labor laws, can't slash wages and expect that the government covers the costs of labor, etc... If Walmart paid their workers lavishly, gave them huge pensions, didn't e…

We are criticizing the government, not defending Walmart.

The idea of equal protection under the law is much bigger and more important than a corporation that sucks. Every business should have equal access to law enforcement regardless of how big they are.

If law enforcement sucks, it is simply not any private company’s job to address the problem.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#293

Post by s1artibartfast »

Daviey wrote: post #268
s1artibartfast wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moonlighting isnt the problem. Workers arent slaves and should be able to work elsewhere when they arent on the clock. Cities legally requiring people to hire moonlighting cops IS the problem.

I don't agree, some jobs are what I would consider protected. Particularly, when they are literally wearing their main job uniform and exercising their same powers! For example, in the UK the Police are technically servants of the crown, and are prohibited from industrial action / striking - this means there are different from a regular job. Do you feel members of the military should be allowed to have weekend jobs,…

Yes military and SEC are and should be free to moonlight. It is extremely common for military to have two jobs, especially the military reserve. The only provision is that they can't have conflicts of interest.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#294

Post by maze-le »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #47
h2odragon wrote: post #33

I know of a local Volunteer fire Dept that went that way; started having the head guy and a couple of his big cousins go around and tell people how much the VFD needed support, and how flammable their house or business looked. Couple months after that started, the guy's house burned down. I heard the trucks came out twice, the second time there were more people responding and the police got into the guy's barn with a…

Firefighter arson is a relatively well known phenomenon. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/fires-set-by-firefigh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefighter_arson

That, but organized by a whole volunteer department in this case...

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#295

Post by sneak »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #82
bilbo0s wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a crime if you're not prosecuted for it. That just means the DA's likely in on it and the criminality is systemic. Doesn't mean the activity becomes legal.

Can you go around the DA and directly to the FBI? Because it sounds like the kind of thing the RICO act was written for.

The FBI cannot be relied upon to address the issue of law enforcement corruption.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#296

Post by s1artibartfast »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #266
s1artibartfast wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moonlighting isnt the problem. Workers arent slaves and should be able to work elsewhere when they arent on the clock. Cities legally requiring people to hire moonlighting cops IS the problem.

Using the language of labor movements to describe police isn't adequate for understanding the constraints they work under. What makes a cop a cop isn't the work they do, but the power they have. To what extent they are free to apply this power, or sell it, outside of its normal sanctioned purpose is a critical question. And one completely separate from the issue of workers selling their labor to multiple parties. Wor…

I think that argument breaks down if the police are Moonlighting in a job that doesn't require police powers.

It is one thing, and I think reasonable, say that police can't wear their uniforms when working off duty. It's another thing entirely to say that they can't work at all

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#297

Post by dang »

_moof wrote: post #18

Already we've got two top-level comments who think this article is about crime. It isn't. It's about corrupt police shaking down small business owners under threat of losing their business license. ETA: Please give the pedantry a rest. Of course I know police corruption is criminal. That's not what the people talking about "crime" are talking about.

Can you please make your substantive points without swipes or snark, as the site guidelines ask? When other people are mistaken, it's enough to provide correct information. Getting frustrated and lashing out spoils this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#299

Post by dang »

danaris wrote: post #262
jzb wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The DOJ has to start actually doing its job and completely dissolving these corrupt police departments and rebuilding them" Not trivial, considering a substantial percentage of elected officials are dead-set against allowing the DOJ to actually fight this kind of thing. They only approve of law and order when the law and/or order is pointed at very specific types of criminals or protests.

[flagged]

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents."

"Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity."

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Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#300

Post by dang »

bequanna wrote: post #116
montagg wrote: post #101

Vultures picking what away at parts of a corpse they can. You see so many examples of this, just straight parasitical behavior, in at least American society. I don’t think the U.S. is economically where the Soviet Union was when it fell, but it’s rapidly approaching the civic dysfunction and deep corruption. You have to wonder, is this the fall of an empire or something like the corruption of the late 1800s and early…

> just straight parasitical behavior Federal and State governments are the biggest parasites with their armies of useless Admin workers. Incidentally, big Govt is also the main driver of malaise-causing inflation. Start to starve them, redirect that labor/capital to useful endeavors and watch productivity and consumer confidence skyrocket.

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents."

"Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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