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Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

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Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#261

Post by rovolo »

lelanthran wrote: post #194
lainga wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my goodness, that FBI behavioural profile on the second link. "We're looking for a suspect who's depressed... alcoholic... and HOMOSEXUAL"

> Oh my goodness, that FBI behavioural profile on the second link. "We're looking for a suspect who's depressed... alcoholic... and HOMOSEXUAL" I count a total of 14 traits that they looked at[1]. Why is that one, and only that one, significant in your opinion? [1] Including the trait of being white. And male.

"White male, age 17–25" is an entire trait. "Homosexual" is a *part* of a trait: "Alcoholism, childhood hyperactivity, homosexuality, depression, borderline personality disorder, and suicidal tendencies". It's significant because of the other descriptors it's grouped with in that trait. It would be weird to have "homosexual" as a trait on its own, but it's obviously weird to group it with these other descriptors in a single trait.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#262

Post by danaris »

jzb wrote: post #68
DonnyV wrote: post #30

The DOJ has to start actually doing its job and completely dissolving these corrupt police departments and rebuilding them. Thats the only way we're going to get rid of corrupts cops like this.

"The DOJ has to start actually doing its job and completely dissolving these corrupt police departments and rebuilding them" Not trivial, considering a substantial percentage of elected officials are dead-set against allowing the DOJ to actually fight this kind of thing. They only approve of law and order when the law and/or order is pointed at very specific types of criminals or protests.

[flagged]

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#263

Post by s1artibartfast »

Daviey wrote: post #146

I'm constantly surprised that the US allows off-duty police to "moonlight" as security. What is worse, many states seem to allow them to wear both their uniform and retain their police powers, whilst being paid in a private capacity. Which other countries allow this?

Moonlighting isnt the problem. Workers arent slaves and should be able to work elsewhere when they arent on the clock.

Cities legally requiring people to hire moonlighting cops IS the problem.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#264

Post by toomuchtodo »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #19
thatgerhard wrote: post #8

gang behaviour

More like a Mafia protection racket imho. Worthy of a DoJ complaint and investigation.

Something like this: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-and-us-att... ("Justice Department and U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of New Jersey Announce Investigation of the City of Trenton and the Trenton Police Department")

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#265

Post by lainga »

lelanthran wrote: post #194
lainga wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my goodness, that FBI behavioural profile on the second link. "We're looking for a suspect who's depressed... alcoholic... and HOMOSEXUAL"

> Oh my goodness, that FBI behavioural profile on the second link. "We're looking for a suspect who's depressed... alcoholic... and HOMOSEXUAL" I count a total of 14 traits that they looked at[1]. Why is that one, and only that one, significant in your opinion? [1] Including the trait of being white. And male.

Not much, I just thought they had taken that one out of DSM-5

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#266

Post by giraffe_lady »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #263
Daviey wrote: post #146

I'm constantly surprised that the US allows off-duty police to "moonlight" as security. What is worse, many states seem to allow them to wear both their uniform and retain their police powers, whilst being paid in a private capacity. Which other countries allow this?

Moonlighting isnt the problem. Workers arent slaves and should be able to work elsewhere when they arent on the clock. Cities legally requiring people to hire moonlighting cops IS the problem.

Using the language of labor movements to describe police isn't adequate for understanding the constraints they work under. What makes a cop a cop isn't the work they do, but the power they have. To what extent they are free to apply this power, or sell it, outside of its normal sanctioned purpose is a critical question. And one completely separate from the issue of workers selling their labor to multiple parties.

Workers aren't slaves, but police are closer to slave drivers than they are to workers in this model. They do not labor, but are part of the system that coordinates who labors, to what ends, and to whose benefit.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#267

Post by taway_6PplYu5 »

shipscode wrote: post #221
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with guns, minimum wage people aren't gonna want to be heroes and risk their lives protecting the money of their boss, when threatened at gunpoint. Even if they're willing to pull the trigger, your average 7-Eleven employee is no Navy Seal and won't react well under gunpoint pressure and might end up shooting some innocent bystander or himself. Just giving guns to everyone is bad idea on so many levels.

Having a gun pointed at you is a threat to your life, not “the money of your boss”. Minimum wage or not, their life has value, and they should be to defend it by meeting deadly force with deadly force.

Your scenario starts with a gun pointed at the person. How much training do you believe is required such that an otherwise ordinary person "win" a gunfight when their gun is holstered and the opponent already has them in their aim?

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#268

Post by Daviey »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #263
Daviey wrote: post #146

I'm constantly surprised that the US allows off-duty police to "moonlight" as security. What is worse, many states seem to allow them to wear both their uniform and retain their police powers, whilst being paid in a private capacity. Which other countries allow this?

Moonlighting isnt the problem. Workers arent slaves and should be able to work elsewhere when they arent on the clock. Cities legally requiring people to hire moonlighting cops IS the problem.

I don't agree, some jobs are what I would consider protected. Particularly, when they are literally wearing their main job uniform and exercising their same powers!

For example, in the UK the Police are technically servants of the crown, and are prohibited from industrial action / striking - this means there are different from a regular job.

Do you feel members of the military should be allowed to have weekend jobs, particularly roles that benefit from their main job.. such as being a mercenary?

Comparably, I would be shocked in an SEC official would be allowed to have a 'side-gig' working in finance. Same as there are conventions on the business interests that US presidents are allowed to have.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#269

Post by renewiltord »

It's interesting that a lot of pro-cop people will say stuff like "The neighbourhood cafe always gives them free doughnuts. Guess who has a cruiser parked there often and always gets responded to. Be nice to the police."

Like, dude, that's a protection racket. At that point, you might as well open it up to private organizations and I'll pay on the market for the best one that I like.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#270

Post by renewiltord »

senderista wrote: post #192

If you find these corruption allegations hard to believe, I lived on the South Side of Chicago in the late 90s, and cops there expected to eat for free wherever they went and blew through stop signs and red lights like they weren't even there. (I have never seen this kind of police behavior anywhere else I've lived, which includes downtown Seattle.) Oh, and I had a detective tell me once (after they'd found the guy w…

That happens in San Francisco too. Back in the day when someone tried to negotiate with the union, a bomb was found in the city with an implied threat.
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