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Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

minnesotareformer.com

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Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#221

Post by shipscode »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #7
shipscode wrote: post #5

Why not just train staff and carry guns?

Even with guns, minimum wage people aren't gonna want to be heroes and risk their lives protecting the money of their boss, when threatened at gunpoint. Even if they're willing to pull the trigger, your average 7-Eleven employee is no Navy Seal and won't react well under gunpoint pressure and might end up shooting some innocent bystander or himself. Just giving guns to everyone is bad idea on so many levels.

Having a gun pointed at you is a threat to your life, not “the money of your boss”. Minimum wage or not, their life has value, and they should be to defend it by meeting deadly force with deadly force.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#222

Post by jimt1234 »

This happened to a childhood friend in St. Louis, Missouri. He opened a restaurant/bar and was mildly successful for a year or so. Then some dude came into his restaurant, flashing a badge, saying he needed to pay for additional security because of recent complaints, even though my friend had never heard of any complaints. My friend asked what "additional security" meant, and the dude told him that marked police cars would drive by every once in awhile. So, basically nothing "additional" at all. Anyway, my friend refused, and the dude left. Almost immediately, the "additional" police cars showed up outside his restaurant. They were constantly parked across the street, where they waited to pull-over nearly every car that left the restaurant. They issued numerous DUI citations, even to people that didn't have anything to drink. They impounded cars for chickenshit reasons. Business at my friend's restaurant plummeted - no one wanted to be harassed by the cops, and risk getting a DUI. My friend eventually had to close his restaurant.

This was a few years ago, and when my friend told me about it, I just kept thinking he was talking about The Sopranos. But he wasn't; he was talking about the real-life police.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#223

Post by selimthegrim »

thedaly wrote: post #112
doctorhandshake wrote: post #87

I've seen this with NYC nightclubs as well.

I've seen it in Chicago as well. The article mentions New Orlands PD. Seems to be a pretty wide spread phenomenon

Yes, there was an article a few days ago about how basically cops here are grossing over 100 K working security. (I live in New Orleans)

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#224

Post by shipscode »

Justsignedup wrote: post #13
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with guns, minimum wage people aren't gonna want to be heroes and risk their lives protecting the money of their boss, when threatened at gunpoint. Even if they're willing to pull the trigger, your average 7-Eleven employee is no Navy Seal and won't react well under gunpoint pressure and might end up shooting some innocent bystander or himself. Just giving guns to everyone is bad idea on so many levels.

I don't think this point gets plastered everywhere in the entirety of the world enough. Most humans don't want to shoot other humans. The few who have murder fantasies do, but other than that nobody wants to take a life. The concept of just arming everyone isn't a positive nor even a remote solution.

Most humans with a gun pointed at them would take the option. Meeting deadly force with deadly force is far from a murder fantasy, in fact, self defense is an exemption to murder statutes, and for good reason.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#225

Post by rpmisms »

rednerrus wrote: post #214
arthurofbabylon wrote: post #175

Already, police do this exact shakedown on cities. There are numerous incidents (anecdotal) of US police threatening city officials to reduce enforcement during election cycles, demanding increases in police force budget. Broadly, the US needs to eliminate corruption. There are many broken feedback loops right now from the grand (lobbying and campaign finance) to the minuscule (niche price fixing, bribery, police-ran…

[flagged]

No. SAG-AFTRA members, with the notable exception of Alec Baldwin, can't shoot people and get away with it. Police have special privileges, and should be snapped back into last century before we allow them to abuse them.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#226

Post by shipscode »

oldpersonintx wrote: post #23
shipscode wrote: post #5

Why not just train staff and carry guns?

are you going to risk ten years in prison to defend your employer's inventory in exchange for minimum wage?

If someone is pointing a gun at you, they are putting your life at risk. The inventory is tangential at that point.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#227

Post by rpmisms »

fundad wrote: post #171

A lot of times, off-duty police are the only people licensed to carry concealed weapons. Santa Clara Sheriff's department decides to approve an application or not so they prevent any competition for armed security. They solicited bribes in exchange for permits for Apple corporate security. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-26/apple-sec...

Thankfully, this is not common outside NY and California. Most other states (27 at last count) have constitutional carry, and at least in my area (small city) violent crime is extremely rare, since pretty much everyone has a gun or access to one. Our crime consists of theft and DUIs.

I can't imagine what would happen if cops tried a protection racket here...

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#228

Post by mrguyorama »

brvsft wrote: post #200
tomcam wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many of the places Wal-Mart has the most problems, both police and private security are sharply limited in what actions they can take against shoplifters. And places like California, Oregon, and Washington won’t prosecute for crimes under about $950. What do you propose Wal-Mart do in these localities?

A lot of people are under the impression that these stores can just eat the cost with insurance, which is, of course, an absurd notion because then the insurance company is losing too much money and will raise the premiums. Then Walmart, etc. can't afford the insurance unless they close their most problematic locations. People engage in a lot of magical thinking to justify theft since it seems like a harmless act. Th…

No, insurance doesn't have to cover it, because even in these cases where large retailers are crying about theft, it's still not the primary cause of shrinkage in their businesses! Grocers still lose more product to employee theft or just breaking stuff during handling.

Even in California where there's some conspiracy theory about how "It's the DAs fault the police aren't doing anything", as if it's the police's responsibility, or even their jurisdiction, to pick and choose who should go to jail.

Cops should be bringing in people violating the law even if nobody ever went to prison!

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#229

Post by rpmisms »

Justsignedup wrote: post #13
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with guns, minimum wage people aren't gonna want to be heroes and risk their lives protecting the money of their boss, when threatened at gunpoint. Even if they're willing to pull the trigger, your average 7-Eleven employee is no Navy Seal and won't react well under gunpoint pressure and might end up shooting some innocent bystander or himself. Just giving guns to everyone is bad idea on so many levels.

I don't think this point gets plastered everywhere in the entirety of the world enough. Most humans don't want to shoot other humans. The few who have murder fantasies do, but other than that nobody wants to take a life. The concept of just arming everyone isn't a positive nor even a remote solution.

I don't want to shoot other humans. I've been in a situation where I nearly needed to, and I'll never fail to be equipped to do so. I had to shoot a cat about a year ago, and I'm still a bit fucked up about it. A human would be so much worse, and that's not something I want to experience.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#230

Post by Clubber »

claar wrote: post #197
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not envisioning any society in particular. Instead, I would ask you a question. It's a little contrived, so bear with me. Imagine a situation that you could plausibly find yourself in where you would feel the need to contact the police. It need not be a 911 call, though those are fine too. Imagine how that would go down... the time of day you contact them. Where you would be when it happened. How you would descr…

May I assume you don't live in the US midwest Bible belt? A friendly officer drove 10 minutes to pull out a slim jim and unlock my car for me. I thanked him. Normal stuff. A lady's car broke down in an intersection. A police car put their lights on to keep us safe while 3 or 4 random people pushed the car to safety. I often call dispatch to report accidents, debris on the road, or anything else that would warrant pol…

It depends on the police department.

>They protect. They serve.. it's honestly very simple. Not all police are lazy/corrupt/ego-driven maniacs. Not around here anyway.

They are not, but departments are unwilling to get rid of the bad ones most of the time.

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