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Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

blog.tripu.info

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Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#131

Post by gosub100 »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #30

I am baffled how we went from a liberal "free" democracy to this ersatz of a totalitarian regime where all our conversations/messages/photos need to be dissected, catalogued and approved by un-elected bureaucrats. I mean you can literally go to eastern Europe to see the vestiges of the Stasi where they used to listen to the conversations of their citizens while trying to find dissidents among them. This isn't some ki…

To me the difference between the iron curtain and today is storage and retrieval. The Bluffdale NAS has been quietly recording everything we say and do, and in 10-20 years it will be a gold mine for manipulating presidential elections. In fact, I can't wait (only for the satisfaction of seeing my prediction come true) to see the first election where the "dirt" on the candidate is an 8th-grade myspace/facebook post.

Take this to NSA levels of privacy invasion and things are about to get _really_ interesting. Nixing candidates is only the beginning, you can sell them protection, or force them to pass/don't pass laws or foreign policy. To me, that's the _real_ benefit of all this. they probably couldn't care less about dissidents.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#132

Post by civilitty »

bee_rider wrote: post #101
pmarreck wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Law of Power (basically, "might makes right") will run circles around any other "law" concept. Whether even this conforms to some "natural law" underneath, is secondary IMHO.

“Might makes right” seems more like an observation of a particular instance in the feedback loop of building power. America is for example in a pretty strong position, but maintains power by doing diplomatic stuff. Being in some sense the leader of a big coalition of friendly countries (imagine if we had to force EU countries to accept our bases by violence, it is way cheaper to just be on friendly terms with them an…

> Might might make right, but a complex system of rules, conventions, laws, negotiations, reputations and even person-to-person relationships made quite some might. It’s sorta chicken and egg.

All of those systems are a response to “might makes right” and the history of violence with the ultimate conclusion in the trenches of WWI and WWII. Wars to decide whose might is rightest became so destructive in the modern era that we created all these complex systems of geopolitics - because few of us can stomach destroying a century of industrial progress to prove our might anymore.

“Might make right” still dominates the interactions between unequal states.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#133

Post by salawat »

dgroshev wrote: post #121
jessenaser wrote: post #6

The easiest way to combat "you have nothing to hide" is if you were in a country taken over by dictators or terrorists, those leaders don't care and cannot be reasoned with. They will use the backdoor at any time to punish dissent or any misalignment with their rules. And if people say, "but our country is free", tell them that if your country was not, how would you get back to freedom? Is your software and hardware…

This feels a bit redundant. If you were in a country taken over by dictators or terrorists, those dictators or terrorists won't hesitate to deploy a mandatory surveillance regime (see: Xinjiang), they don't need a leg up from the previous democratic government. If your country is not overtaken by dictators or terrorists, the "nothing to hide" argument stands. This hypothetical situation is not made materially worse b…

Setting up a backdoor is more difficult than co-opting one that already exists. It's called the bootstrapping problem, and you posting this right now are the beneficiary of a hell of a lot of bootstrapping.

So your assertion fails before you even get to merits.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#134

Post by WolfeReader »

judge2020 wrote: post #95
nine_k wrote: post #3

In short: since the EU is trying to introduce legislation to monitor private communication, the author states that it's a moral duty of everyone to start encrypting their communications (instant messaging in particular), as a form of civil disobedience. It works when many (preferably most) people disobey.

Unfortunately this doesn't work because a _lot_ of will people legitimately will tell you they "have nothing to hide" and would tell you they'd let 3-letter agencies in the U.S. go through their phone with a fine-tooth comb (at least, until they're actually being faced with that reality and try to get out of it). The only reason we currently have any message encryption is because a few tech companies have made the de…

"The only reason we currently have any message encryption is because a few tech companies have made the decision to protect as many as possible by releasing products which enable it (iOS, Whatsapp, and now texts via Google Messages)."

Completely false. Phil Zimmerman gave us PGP for free in 1991, and numerous open encryption standards now belong to the general public. Giving credit to Apple, Meta, and Google for this isn't just blatanly incorrect; it erases the hard work of genuinely good people, and shifts the credit to user-hostile mass surveillance corporations.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#135

Post by beeboobaa »

anonym29 wrote: post #72
globular-toast wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's unrealistic about it? I've been doing it for more then a decade.

You have an extremely generous and optimistic view of the cognitive capital of the average person.

I'm so sick and tired of techies infantilizing the rest of the population. It started with making apps "accessible" but the result is that they've dumbed down an entire generation by limiting them to their locked down mobile phones. Now everything supposedly should be accessible to everyone without them having to invest a second of thought, so much so that this now has somehow become the norm.

People who care will figure it out, and those who don't will be left behind.

But no, thats not acceptable because you have to gouge everyone to make as much money as possible nowadays.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#137

Post by dublinben »

qweqwe14 wrote: post #119

Lots of comments here mention that the vast majority of people won't use PGP, Linux and other things to protect their privacy, because they don't care/are dumb/have more important things to do/whatever. The bottom line though is that people that are more tech savvy and more knowledgeable will always have better privacy no matter what, unless you literally enforce Linux and all that on everyone, which is just not gonn…

>Most people don't care.

Most people aren't given the choice. When they are actually presented an equally simple decision between more privacy and less privacy, nearly everyone chooses privacy.[0] Making privacy just as easy as not-privacy is exactly what needs to happen, and that is likely to only happen through regulation. We can already see how hard companies work to avoid complying with GDPR and the cookie law.

[0] https://www.flurry.com/blog/ios-14-5-opt-in-rate-att-restric...

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#138

Post by dgroshev »

salawat wrote: post #133
dgroshev wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels a bit redundant. If you were in a country taken over by dictators or terrorists, those dictators or terrorists won't hesitate to deploy a mandatory surveillance regime (see: Xinjiang), they don't need a leg up from the previous democratic government. If your country is not overtaken by dictators or terrorists, the "nothing to hide" argument stands. This hypothetical situation is not made materially worse b…

Setting up a backdoor is more difficult than co-opting one that already exists. It's called the bootstrapping problem, and you posting this right now are the beneficiary of a hell of a lot of bootstrapping. So your assertion fails before you even get to merits.

I don't understand what you mean by "bootstrapping" in this context. If you can get your phone or computer randomly inspected and copied on the street, and then thrown in jail or executed for trying to avoid surveillance, there is no need for "backdoors" or "bootstrapping". The government just passes a relevant law and surveils, no need for fancy backdoors when you can do straight interception and bans.

Besides, "you need to protest RIGHT NOW so that you can delay total surveillance regime by a year or two if the government eventually turns North Korean" does not sound like a strong call to action to me.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#139

Post by salawat »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #107
tripu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. (Thank you for all the comments!) Yes, I know SSH tunnelling and compiling your own Android are tall orders for the average user. Here I'm just hinting at some examples that are well-known among us geeks, but there are easier to use alternatives to all that. I suspect Protonmail is as easy to use as GMail. VPNs are so easy to use nowadays. The UX on Signal isn't particularly challenging to the average us…

> There is a lot we techies can do to educate normies... This isn’t something you’ll find universal agreement about. My own position is that we techies are seen as weirdos by most of the population, and what we should do is leave normal people alone. Definitely not try to “educate” them – think about how elitist that’s going to sound to many of them.

I find the opposite. When I really sit down and lay out for my parents the implementation details of what goes on, yes, immediately the reaction is to the negative. They come back later though and ask for clarification. They ask more questions, and they more patiently listen to the answers.

Education has always been and always will be an uphill battle. No one likes to be taught. We do it anyway, because both are enriched in so doing.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#140

Post by salawat »

johngladtj wrote: post #21
croes wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they outlaw encryption but everyone encrypts, they can either do nothing or arrest everyone. I'm Spartacus.

Alternatively they just arrest whoever they want to arrest

They already do that anyway, so what changes?

The bonus is now everyone knows they do which further erodes the base legitimacy of the institution, increasing the likelyhood of reformative action potentials.

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