Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty • Hacker News Board

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#61

Post by rakoo » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 2:12 PM UTC

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #30

I am baffled how we went from a liberal "free" democracy to this ersatz of a totalitarian regime where all our conversations/messages/photos need to be dissected, catalogued and approved by un-elected bureaucrats. I mean you can literally go to eastern Europe to see the vestiges of the Stasi where they used to listen to the conversations of their citizens while trying to find dissidents among them. This isn't some ki…

> I am baffled how we went from a liberal "free" democracy to this ersatz of a totalitarian regime

> How come we end up here again? Why can't the powers that be just leave the people to live their lives in peace without being snooped on by the surveillance apparatus?

You need to read more anarchist/communist literature that explains the situation as it has always been: the presence of a State, as an entity, implies that the population has never been in control. The State has always been. Yes, sure, sometimes the State gives a facade of openness, but it's always been a facade.

Whatever the "free" era we think happened, that era was still definitely not free for a part of the population: marginalized people, non-obedient people, people with an identity considered deviant, .... It wasn't "free", it was just "free for me"

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#62

Post by globular-toast » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 2:12 PM UTC

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #8

The author advocates using encryption as an ethical duty, OK. But it would not be an effective form of civil disobedience. This is unrealistic: > We should all use PGP, SSL or equivalent tools; VPNs, Tor and/or SSH tunnelling; IPFS, or other distributed file systems — and ditch proprietary OS's in favour of Linux or truly free Android distros. This is not anything the general public, for whom today their mobile phone…

Then we should make it our responsibility to ensure the general public can do these things and refuse to support companies that try to make it more difficult.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#63

Post by theonlybutlet » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 2:12 PM UTC

willhackett wrote: post #17

Legislation in favour of the consumer is almost starting to seem detrimental to the startup founder. The number of barriers, prerequisites, requirements, etc that a founder needs to consider pre-launch is bordering on insurmountable. This might just be me feeling like this, but even considering geo-residency in some of my early prototype designs feels very odd. I was optimistically hoping PaaS providers would catch u…

That sounds more like legislated administrative burden and nothing to do with consumer protection. A law to protect consumers can be developed without all the burdens. (why do you need a declaration?, you're either compliant or you're not.)

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#64

Post by high_5 » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 2:12 PM UTC

rakoo wrote: post #52

high_5 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unrealistic in technological but sociological terms.

That's not unrealistic then, it's just a lack of will.

Mostly not a lack of will but much more local and urgent priorities than figuring out SSH and PGP, like jobs and chores for example.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#65

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 2:13 PM UTC

globular-toast wrote: post #48

crazygringo wrote: post #27

I can sympathize with the general notion that more encryption is better, even if I wouldn't go to the extreme of declaring it a duty . But the author just completely lost me at: > We should all use PGP, SSL or equivalent tools; VPNs, Tor and/or SSH tunnelling; IPFS, or other distributed file systems — and ditch proprietary OS's in favour of Linux or truly free Android distros... Those tools and techniques should ceas…

What's unrealistic about it? I've been doing it for more then a decade.

[deleted]

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#66

Post by mnw21cam » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 2:13 PM UTC

RandomLensman wrote: post #37

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #30

I am baffled how we went from a liberal "free" democracy to this ersatz of a totalitarian regime where all our conversations/messages/photos need to be dissected, catalogued and approved by un-elected bureaucrats. I mean you can literally go to eastern Europe to see the vestiges of the Stasi where they used to listen to the conversations of their citizens while trying to find dissidents among them. This isn't some ki…

The "how" is simple: because it could be done with relative ease now. So those charged with preventing crimes can push for it and pushing back against crime fighting is a tough stance to take. Also, assuming high levels of privacy in the days of old might be in error, depending on what you were doing.

I think in this case the "how" became the "why". Because it is now easy.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#67

Post by lazide » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 2:13 PM UTC

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #30

I am baffled how we went from a liberal "free" democracy to this ersatz of a totalitarian regime where all our conversations/messages/photos need to be dissected, catalogued and approved by un-elected bureaucrats. I mean you can literally go to eastern Europe to see the vestiges of the Stasi where they used to listen to the conversations of their citizens while trying to find dissidents among them. This isn't some ki…

Many people look at things like the Stasi and think - the problem with it was who was in charge, not that it existed.

We’re the good guys so it would be a good thing. Not a bad thing.

The problem is, they’re almost always the absolute worst to deal with, as almost any evil is excusable when done ‘for the right reasons’ or when ‘we’re the good guys’, where selfish evil at least sometimes takes a break or feels bad. And selfish evil is usually more predictable.

It’s a constant struggle. The underlying need for some to control others, to know what others are doing at all times (and the corresponding elements of control and manipulation) has always lived in every group.

How a group does is more about what it does with it, and how it directs it/reins it in (and acknowledges it), rather than its lack of existence.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#68

Post by SenAnder » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 2:13 PM UTC

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #30

I am baffled how we went from a liberal "free" democracy to this ersatz of a totalitarian regime where all our conversations/messages/photos need to be dissected, catalogued and approved by un-elected bureaucrats. I mean you can literally go to eastern Europe to see the vestiges of the Stasi where they used to listen to the conversations of their citizens while trying to find dissidents among them. This isn't some ki…

> How come we end up here again?

Through failure of instinct. Seeing government agents open your letters, copy their contents, then re-seal them to send them on their way, or tap your phone and listen attentively with headphones, provokes an immediate, instinctive, visceral reaction. There's no need to construct elaborate scenarios how an ordinary law-abiding citizen could fall afoul of his government to make them see the threat.

But change those human spies into innocuous databases and convenient phones, and you lose the benefit of instinct.

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#69

Post by baal80spam » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #35

nonrandomstring wrote: post #5

> you would be morally obliged to disobey In days of yore my CS law module was taught by a QC - that's a high ranking barrister in the UK - who explained the world of difference between the "The Rule of Law" and "the law" in a class called "jurisprudence". Rule of Law (capitalised conceptual) is there as permanent ground truth in contrast to the ephemeral du-jure laws. At times I still struggle with that profound cou…

I think you meant: du-jure -> de jure

I think you meant: de jure -> de iure

Re: Encrypting private data and private communications is now an ethical duty

#70

Post by gaoshan » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

Citizen_Lame wrote: post #40

crazygringo wrote: post #27

I can sympathize with the general notion that more encryption is better, even if I wouldn't go to the extreme of declaring it a duty . But the author just completely lost me at: > We should all use PGP, SSL or equivalent tools; VPNs, Tor and/or SSH tunnelling; IPFS, or other distributed file systems — and ditch proprietary OS's in favour of Linux or truly free Android distros... Those tools and techniques should ceas…

I don't see it as unrealistic, as for your comprehension ability, that's debatable. For this to work on everything, it needs to be hardware implemented (security chip/SOC), to avoid taxing the CPU and rest of the system. Software engineering has been lax for so long, but paradigm is changing and it should be security first.

"as for your comprehension ability, that's debatable"

This comes across as rude, especially in response to someone that did not themselves say anything warranting a rude response. You can disagree and make your point without doing this. I'm pointing it out because you genuinely may not be aware and I want to give the benefit of doubt (something I myself too often do not do online).