The importance of handwriting is now better understood • Hacker News Board

Re: The importance of handwriting is now better understood

#71

Post by edgyquant » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 1:24 PM UTC

lgrebe wrote: post #50

jmkd wrote: post #32

If your handwriting looks good and gives satisfaction you will do it more. It truly helps embodying thoughts and ideas, and provides another significant layer (like flavour in a recipe) of learning and understanding. I was fortunate to be taught Marion Richardson [0] style handwriting aged 8 or so, and decades years later my handwriting is still universally complimented. I hand write letters for pleasure and take not…

Marion Richardson Handwriting was first published in 1935 and continued to be used in schools until the 1980s. It consists of five copy books, each with a different level of difficulty, and a teacher's book that explains the methods and materials to be used. You can download the copy books for free from this link: [Writing and Writing Patterns]( https://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.54007 .)

This seems very clearly a bot post. This is a non-sequitur to the other comment and the way it redescribes the context seems fishy and too artificial.

Re: The importance of handwriting is now better understood

#72

Post by edgyquant » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

eviks wrote: post #66

eloisant wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been studies that proved that handwriting helps memorizing better than using a computer. The studies took a group of students, randomly assigned them handwriting/computers then they had a test to pass. Handwriting students performed better. The reason is that handwriting is slower, so it forces you to summarize and make decisions in your note taking. Selecting what's important. On the other hand typing is f…

So you only need to slow a person down to achieve the same effect, what's the value of handwriting?

The mechanical motion involved, physically putting your thoughts down. It isn’t the same as typing at all where you just click a button, having to motion the letters and words is surely worth something in itself.

Re: The importance of handwriting is now better understood

#73

Post by edgyquant » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

moffkalast wrote: post #67

silcoon wrote: post #17

I've direct experience on the power of handwriting to memorise concepts. When at the UNI, I was studying CS (while working part-time) less than 10 ya, and classes where full of laptops. I was take notes during lectures using only pen and paper and similarly I was taking my notes about the main concepts from the courses books. Then I was re-writing them again in a more summarised way, and then underline this notes and…

I don't really get how moving hands smoothly to write something versus tapping keys poses any large difference in memorization? For the us generations that grew up learning cursive and associating it with school it may be easier to remember that way, but if someone was raised by only typing from an early age it probably makes no difference. We're analog juvenoial dinosaurs living in a digital age we've only partially…

How is this hard to get? One you tap a button that could contain any character or letter. The other is physically motioning said characters and you brain associates the underlying idea with the motions rather than a generic “tap.”

Re: The importance of handwriting is now better understood

#74

Post by BurningFrog » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 1:35 PM UTC

maegul wrote: post #53

wizofaus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> probably sculpted by our evolution I can't really begin to imagine what selective pressure could realistically have acted on this, certainly given the tiny period of time over which any substantial percentage of the population would have been using their hands to store information in any way. If there's any correlation between use of computers and any loss of ability to memorise concepts (which I'm not convinced we…

Superficial take IMO. Don’t need a selective pressure for a cognitive process to work in a particular way. You just need a selective pressure for the cognitive skill and for the way that skill works to at least not have a pressure against it, biology being full of engineering compromises. Learning well with handwriting, IMO, has little to do with hands specifically, but memory and understanding in general, where the…

My guess/impression is that the act of writing something down passes the information through different parts of the brain, and then you have two independent memories of the facts.

Re: The importance of handwriting is now better understood

#75

Post by User23 » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 1:35 PM UTC

silcoon wrote: post #17

I've direct experience on the power of handwriting to memorise concepts. When at the UNI, I was studying CS (while working part-time) less than 10 ya, and classes where full of laptops. I was take notes during lectures using only pen and paper and similarly I was taking my notes about the main concepts from the courses books. Then I was re-writing them again in a more summarised way, and then underline this notes and…

> Don't abandon pen and paper, don't regress human brain capacity.

Socrates believed writing regressed human brain capacity, by serving as a crutch for memory and thus leading to atrophy.

Maybe he had a point, because you don’t much hear about recitations of Illiad length works from memory these days.

I don’t think it’s quite as simple as all that though, because I imagine using your memory mostly as an index rather than mostly as a data store has its own set of adaptions. However, the development of that kind of comprehensive organizing memory is by no means ensured by the modern environment.

Re: The importance of handwriting is now better understood

#76

Post by cpach » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 1:35 PM UTC

yorwba wrote: post #14

kukrak wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, The website does not load - I checked on Firefox, Chrome and Edge.

Maybe you're using Cloudflare DNS https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828317

One can also try with alternative URLs: https://archive.today/q0uAI, https://archive.is/q0uAI

Re: The importance of handwriting is now better understood

#77

Post by blululu » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 1:36 PM UTC

edgyquant wrote: post #71

lgrebe wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marion Richardson Handwriting was first published in 1935 and continued to be used in schools until the 1980s. It consists of five copy books, each with a different level of difficulty, and a teacher's book that explains the methods and materials to be used. You can download the copy books for free from this link: [Writing and Writing Patterns]( https://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.54007 .)

This seems very clearly a bot post. This is a non-sequitur to the other comment and the way it redescribes the context seems fishy and too artificial.

It is a very bot level post, but the link goes to a real book (a scan so not that accessible) and it does at least give a bit of relevant summary on the topic to save a Google search (assuming you trust it). It could be better but I don’t totally hate it.

Re: The importance of handwriting is now better understood

#78

Post by jncfhnb » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

silcoon wrote: post #17

I've direct experience on the power of handwriting to memorise concepts. When at the UNI, I was studying CS (while working part-time) less than 10 ya, and classes where full of laptops. I was take notes during lectures using only pen and paper and similarly I was taking my notes about the main concepts from the courses books. Then I was re-writing them again in a more summarised way, and then underline this notes and…

I dislike these kind of statements. I can’t take notes. I learned very explicitly that I will retain information much better if I take no effort to write it down and instead just focus and listen. If I do take notes, I’ll look down at my page at the end and see 20ish words written in different sizes and spaces and then throw it away because it’s clearly useless.

That is to say, it’s all just personal preference. Explore and exploit what works for you.

Re: The importance of handwriting is now better understood

#79

Post by moffkalast » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 1:43 PM UTC

edgyquant wrote: post #73

moffkalast wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really get how moving hands smoothly to write something versus tapping keys poses any large difference in memorization? For the us generations that grew up learning cursive and associating it with school it may be easier to remember that way, but if someone was raised by only typing from an early age it probably makes no difference. We're analog juvenoial dinosaurs living in a digital age we've only partially…

How is this hard to get? One you tap a button that could contain any character or letter. The other is physically motioning said characters and you brain associates the underlying idea with the motions rather than a generic “tap.”

Well the tap isn't necessarily generic, it's in a specific spot and usually by a specific finger associated with only a few letters. While handwriting is just wiggling your hand a bit for anything you write.

We're sort of like LLMs in the way that we don't really see letters when reading anyway, we just see words or parts of words directly. I would expect writing to be the same conceptually.

If anything I'd more lean towards having to form complete solid thoughts before writing them by hand could be beneficial, while typing lets you go back and correct or reword everything, making the overall memory of it fuzzier.

Re: The importance of handwriting is now better understood

#80

Post by progbits » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 1:50 PM UTC

jmkd wrote: post #32

If your handwriting looks good and gives satisfaction you will do it more. It truly helps embodying thoughts and ideas, and provides another significant layer (like flavour in a recipe) of learning and understanding. I was fortunate to be taught Marion Richardson [0] style handwriting aged 8 or so, and decades years later my handwriting is still universally complimented. I hand write letters for pleasure and take not…

> It truly helps embodying thoughts and ideas

I agree the act of writing things out helps. But I strongly disagree this is specific to handwriting. Typing things out has the same effect.