Earlier quoted context omitted.
By all means please tell us your salary in a public hn comment then. Nobody is stopping you
220k base 350k stock
Thanks. Which company and What position?
Leaked Microsoft pay guidelines – salary, hiring bonus, stock awards by level
131–140 of 224 posts
Re: Leaked Microsoft pay guidelines – salary, hiring bonus, stock awards by level
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
And how is tech compensation in Norway compared to the US? That's what I thought...
The raw numbers are different, I’m guessing (I haven’t looked). A tech worker in Norway also pays less for healthcare and housing, is healthier, spends less time in traffic and lives in a society where everyone lives safer and more equally, and has more power to walk away from a shit job than someone in the US. It’s a system that values autonomy for the most people over the power of a tiny sector of the economy to ra…
you are the one that brought up negotiating power in the context of pay transparency. In fact it is the one thing only consequence you listed in the original post. It’s unfair of you to throw back in their face that they addressed the one and only factor you listed.
Re: Leaked Microsoft pay guidelines – salary, hiring bonus, stock awards by level
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why shouldn't Dave and Cathy know what Bob is earning? They're the same level, they should earn the same.
They're at the same level, but maybe not doing the same job. Even if they're nominally in the same "job code" the actual mechanics of what they are doing, the sensitivity of their work, the skills required for success, the markets/industries they are operating in, the pay scale where they live, the level of functional support they are receiving may all be substantially different. Of course there may also be other dec…
> the actual mechanics of what they are doing, the sensitivity of their work, the skills required for success, the markets/industries they are operating in
Surely these are all criteria that should determine your level. What's the point of levels if you're saying each level consists of arbitrary other levels?
I agree that a range should be public, but an employee's salary should remain within the range for their level. If they're demonstrably more valuable to the company, they should be promoted within a transparent structure.
Re: Leaked Microsoft pay guidelines – salary, hiring bonus, stock awards by level
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why shouldn't Dave and Cathy know what Bob is earning? They're the same level, they should earn the same.
While I support all efforts at increasing information transparency, I disagree that prices need to be the same. It is possible that humans are sufficiently different in the quality of the labor they are selling that a buyer might price them differently. For example, I am willing to pay a higher price for someone has 10 years of experience and is less likely to make mistakes or other desirable qualifies more than some…
Isn’t difference in experience one aspect that is represented by different levels? In other words, it’s not the same work if experience vastly differs.
Re: Leaked Microsoft pay guidelines – salary, hiring bonus, stock awards by level
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every company I've talked to with "transparent" comp has offered absolutely terrible comp, even for their highest possible offer. In reality "transparent comp" becomes an excuse for companies to not negotiate.
People in general don't like to have the hard conversations where they tell Bob that Sue is better than him and she makes more money. It's easier to just normalize transparent salaries lower. If everyone is transparent it will change over time though.
If it's real stuff, it can easily be explained:
> Look, Bob. Sue has made X super valuable contributions in the last quarter, and she has done A and B, and she's the expert on that special topic. That's why she's paid 3% more than you, I hope you understand. If you want to get closer to her pay salary, look into improving yourself on XY, doing more AB work, etc.
Giving concrete reasons and targets to achieve is actually beneficial, and it can help motivate people. If there are no concrete reasons, well, then it's just pay discrimination for nothing more than gut feeling which is shitty, and Bob is right to feel bad about it.
Re: Leaked Microsoft pay guidelines – salary, hiring bonus, stock awards by level
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I support all efforts at increasing information transparency, I disagree that prices need to be the same. It is possible that humans are sufficiently different in the quality of the labor they are selling that a buyer might price them differently. For example, I am willing to pay a higher price for someone has 10 years of experience and is less likely to make mistakes or other desirable qualifies more than some…
Isn’t difference in experience one aspect that is represented by different levels? In other words, it’s not the same work if experience vastly differs.
It could be, but I do not see why it has to be. And “vastly” is a nebulous term, maybe an employer wants to classify “levels” more or less broadly, and wants to reward within “levels”, I don’t know, I just don’t see a need to prescribe a very specific system of employee management.
Re: Leaked Microsoft pay guidelines – salary, hiring bonus, stock awards by level
#137Re: Leaked Microsoft pay guidelines – salary, hiring bonus, stock awards by level
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m opposed to disclosure laws that would be prone to expose the income of individual people. If Alice is the only SWEPR5 at a company, that proposal publishes her salary. If Bob is clearly the best SWEPR4, Cathy the middle, and Dave just barely got promoted to that level, their salaries are also individually published. I don’t object to good faith ranges being required in job listings, but I oppose anything that wou…
Why shouldn't Dave and Cathy know what Bob is earning? They're the same level, they should earn the same.
Pay scales are ranges not points. You want to be able to reward good performers higher than lesser performers, even in the same level, so that the incentives are aligned. Promotions to a next level are part of this but those only happen every few years for most people.
Re: Leaked Microsoft pay guidelines – salary, hiring bonus, stock awards by level
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why shouldn't Dave and Cathy know what Bob is earning? They're the same level, they should earn the same.
Why should everyone at the same level earn the same? There are still differences in skill and willingness to work for a given range.
"Willingness to work for a given range" gets exploited by employers at the expense of employees. It helps prop up structural (gender/race) pay gaps and breeds distrust among employees as some salaries inevitably leak out.