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Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

lukashermann.dev

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Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

#91

Post by Roritharr »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #87
Roritharr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, there is no way to escape this if you have made this mistake of being either born as a german tax resident (your tax number is the first document you receive from the government) or having made the weird choice of choosing to become a german tax resident. Personally this specific situation is in the top 3 reasons for me to leave Germany as soon as possible.

Most people don’t choose where to live based on taxes, including me. Healthcare, lifestyle, family, political climate, job opportunities, overall affordability, safety, the rule of law, and other similar factors matter far more to me. But you do you. But moving countries often won’t solve your problem, unless you pick one country before starting your business and reside there indefinitely thereafter. Why? Because the…

The problem is, once again, not with being taxed in general, but with being forced to choose between staying in a country or being bankrupted by taxes.

Yes, other countries do have Exit Taxes, but Germany is pretty unique in the way it calculates how much and when you should be taxed for your private holdings, basically trapping you, mostly without your knowledge, in the country.

Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

#92

Post by urduntupu »

Lionga wrote: post #65
mqus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some taxes Not just "some taxes", but all of them. Keep in mind the author probably studied in germany and never had to pay any substantial fees to the university, his parents got money during his childhood and he will get money even if he does not immediately find a job after he closes his business. Taxes do go both ways. And just because you think the government is too big, you don't get to decide how much you pa…

Or you if you want things to change you leave the country. Chance of success: 100% Chance of success with "vote, lobby and/or take part in political processes": 0,001% I was paying over 50% of my income in taxes in Germany, now I live in a country where most things actually work better and pay around 10%. Germany has become an absolut shit show for everyone who is capable and not in the business of scamming via Gov.…

Hi Lionga, grandparent poster here and fellow German. Did exactly the same thing as you did. For the same reasons. With the same success. I congratulate us for leaving a, pardon me everyone else, highly corrupt state.

Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

#93

Post by varispeed »

throwaway60722 wrote: post #84
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been self-employed under a Polish business ( działalność gospodarcza ) for the last few years. With income tax plus mandatory pension and health contributions, over a third of my income goes to taxes or other mandatory fees (like the requirement to have a licensed accountant keep your books). It really isn’t much different than most other EU countries. And of course one pays a comparable VAT on shopping. Often…

In Czech Republic as self-employed ("živnostník") your effective tax+insurance rate for income up to 2M CZK (~ 80k EUR) is never more than 15%. I have SW contractor friends paying around 8-12% - including health and social insurance. No need to have any accountant at all for income under 2M CZK, you just keep your invoices and sum your income at the end of a year, the tax return form is online and the sum of income i…

In the UK, SW contractor easily can pay over 50% of tax and can't deduct any business expenses on top of that.

Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

#94

Post by LeanderK »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #86
Lionga wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you if you want things to change you leave the country. Chance of success: 100% Chance of success with "vote, lobby and/or take part in political processes": 0,001% I was paying over 50% of my income in taxes in Germany, now I live in a country where most things actually work better and pay around 10%. Germany has become an absolut shit show for everyone who is capable and not in the business of scamming via Gov.…

Can I guess? The 10% tax country has either 10th of Germany’s population, or rich with natural resources, or has no minimum wage and immigration of cheap labor.

I bet it's a tax haven leeching of the countries around it.

To be honest, I also don't accept the argument if only you are well off in a poor country where everyone suffers but you make big bucks with a low tax rate. Are they enjoying a comparable healthcare? Adequate pension? If so, you should have been taxed more. I am a social democrat by heart and think that in the end economy serves society and successful entrepreneurs have inherent social responsibility because of the economic power they have.

Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

#95

Post by throwaway60722 »

varispeed wrote: post #93
throwaway60722 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Czech Republic as self-employed ("živnostník") your effective tax+insurance rate for income up to 2M CZK (~ 80k EUR) is never more than 15%. I have SW contractor friends paying around 8-12% - including health and social insurance. No need to have any accountant at all for income under 2M CZK, you just keep your invoices and sum your income at the end of a year, the tax return form is online and the sum of income i…

In the UK, SW contractor easily can pay over 50% of tax and can't deduct any business expenses on top of that.

Well, that's sad. What do they get from the state that people in Czech Republic don't?

Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

#96

Post by LeanderK »

urduntupu wrote: post #92
Lionga wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you if you want things to change you leave the country. Chance of success: 100% Chance of success with "vote, lobby and/or take part in political processes": 0,001% I was paying over 50% of my income in taxes in Germany, now I live in a country where most things actually work better and pay around 10%. Germany has become an absolut shit show for everyone who is capable and not in the business of scamming via Gov.…

Hi Lionga, grandparent poster here and fellow German. Did exactly the same thing as you did. For the same reasons. With the same success. I congratulate us for leaving a, pardon me everyone else, highly corrupt state.

> highly corrupt state

germany is usually ranked as one of the least corrupt states. I know there's corruption happening but it's just not comparable to highly corrupt states, I've been in a few e.g. venezuela. I also have at least some experience with the workings government via courts/day to day life of judges or the inner workings of the administration of munich and I haven't seen corruption at all.

Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

#97

Post by FirmwareBurner »

gingerlime wrote: post #88
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the tax rules are such that if your center of operation is in Germany, you still need to do taxes here. Then don't have the center of operations in Germany when there are lower-tax EU countries.

Not so easy when you have a family. To be clear, I don’t have a problem paying taxes in Germany. The problem for me is primarily how hard it is to set up a company and deal with bureaucracy here. And even though there are great alternatives like Estonia, they sadly don’t really solve the problem. In contrast, and I don’t know the US but how many people live in Delaware? :)

>Not so easy when you have a family.

Then you have to choose between entrepreneurship and family. Germany is the country to have a family and work for a company your whole life, not for business ventures.

Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

#98

Post by Lionga »

LeanderK wrote: post #96
urduntupu wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Lionga, grandparent poster here and fellow German. Did exactly the same thing as you did. For the same reasons. With the same success. I congratulate us for leaving a, pardon me everyone else, highly corrupt state.

> highly corrupt state germany is usually ranked as one of the least corrupt states. I know there's corruption happening but it's just not comparable to highly corrupt states, I've been in a few e.g. venezuela. I also have at least some experience with the workings government via courts/day to day life of judges or the inner workings of the administration of munich and I haven't seen corruption at all.

Germany has become an absolut shit show for everyone who is capable and not in the business of scamming via Gov. The chancellor Scholz is literally the guy who helped to steal from gov. via Cum Ex in the biggest scandal of the country. And now the prosecutor to investigate and prosecut cum ex gets defunded. You can't make that shit up.

Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

#99

Post by Lionga »

LeanderK wrote: post #94
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I guess? The 10% tax country has either 10th of Germany’s population, or rich with natural resources, or has no minimum wage and immigration of cheap labor.

I bet it's a tax haven leeching of the countries around it. To be honest, I also don't accept the argument if only you are well off in a poor country where everyone suffers but you make big bucks with a low tax rate. Are they enjoying a comparable healthcare? Adequate pension? If so, you should have been taxed more. I am a social democrat by heart and think that in the end economy serves society and successful entrep…

healthcare is better, pension i take care of myself.

Zero leeching, smaller country yes, but why does that matter?

But you are so indoctrinated of "Germany is the best" that you will only wake up when your Pension ponzi scheme in germany explodes. Already now 100% of the federal income taxes are needed to support this ponzi scheme. Just think about it Germany could remove all federal income tax if they just did not have the ponzi pension scheme.

Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it

#100

Post by Luc »

throwaway60722 wrote: post #72
Luc wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not name the country?

There are not so many options you couldn't just check yourself... But to answer your question - Poland and Czech Republic.

Well I could but it would take a while, no other country in Europe has as many neighbours as Germany. Thanks for replying.
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