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Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

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Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#211
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 10 direct reports across 2 teams, with responsibility for a number of actual deliverable work pieces external to these staff. 10 direct reports is about half a week's work at a bare minimum without development, process improvement, etc. 20 is insane and would lead to skill atrophy and team dissatisfaction in short order.

Why does managing the team takes so much work? Do you need to hold the hand of all your reports?

Managing people properly takes time.

For example, a 30 min 1:1 with the report looking at their wellbeing, motivation, challenges, career goals should be a weekly task. The 30 mins is really 45 mins because notes need to be made following so that there is audit trail, and clarity of expectations for both parties. QoS is important so they can't be shoved back to back, otherwise one will find actively concentrating difficult after a while, so that's really 1hr per team member per week. That adds up pretty quickly.

Add in coaching sessions (min 1hr) on specific problems, analysis of team performance, handling of fires, meeting facilitation... This is all before you get to your own work.

Doing engineering management well is a tough job. People are complex and their needs likewise. Sometimes, it pretty much is holding someones hand. I've coached juniors to seniors and it's a lot of work, feedback, questioning, teaching.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#212
post #201
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a team of 13. It's a lot of work. One-on-ones, setting direction, making plans for the coming period, talking and negotiating with stakeholders, scrum ceremonies, quality control, helping people grow, resolving conflicts - it never ends. I enjoy it though.

There is a religion of weekly 1:1s that preaches a lot of wasted time.

I do them bi-weekly, but it still takes up a lot of time. However, if you don't do them, people will feel like they're not being heard and they have no scheduled semi-informal way to communicate with me. So I will never hear their worries or concerns, I don't know what they're struggling with, I won't hear their ideas for improvements, etc.

I think they're super useful, especially in a mostly-remote context.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#213

1 in 6 people in Nokia are/were managers so the ratio sounds about right.

I once counted the number of people between me and the CEO while in Nokia and I got to about 8 levels. It gets worse if you need something from elsewhere in such organizations. Because now you are communicating up the tree to some busy executive with no attention span who then barks down another path in the tree down to (hopefully) the right person you should be talking to directly. Of course doing the sensible thing…

Got somehow similar experience, except software folks tended to mingle quite a lot and cooperate. But pushing through anything new or getting help... The hierarchies were brutal, the management were yuppies busy with business travel and "conferences". Things were somehow working or were absolutely impossible.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#214

I have a long held belief that engineering managers are mostly a scam, and are actually just overpaid scrum masters. This is from working at some top companies

A good engineering manager is worth their weight in gold. Sadly, a good engineering manager is hard to find.

That may be related to the fact they are not paid their weight in gold.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#215
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am reminded of this video of a young woman showing a "day in the life" of a LinkedIn employee https://youtu.be/X5TZVhKDwpk

There were a lot of videos in this style from the twitter people. Turns out they run fine on 20 % remaining workforce.

Half the revenue and being fined for failing to prevent child sexual abuse is fine?

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, at least among my colleagues - both in the US and India offices.

> India Ok, so, I have a friend who works big tech and he has no chill for Indians (SWEs, PMs, etc). Is there a grain of truth to the “lazy Indian” trope? I always assumed, especially first generation immigrants, would be working balls-to-the-wall. Am I wrong? Is there some sort of incentive misalignment in the H1B program? Is it cultural (e.g. like “island time”, which I’ve learned is at least partially attributable…

> "lazy Indian” trope

There is no way this is actually a trope.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst thing is that I never wanted to be a manager but somehow always got pushed that way by the higher ups. I blame my background as evangelist being able to explain technical things to management. Ugh.

Funny. I always want to put my head down and write code, but because I actually know how systems work and help everyone else out to accomplish the basics, every job ever pushes me into infrastructure roles and I end up being the organization's Brent all the time. It fucking sucks.

Brent?

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India Ok, so, I have a friend who works big tech and he has no chill for Indians (SWEs, PMs, etc). Is there a grain of truth to the “lazy Indian” trope? I always assumed, especially first generation immigrants, would be working balls-to-the-wall. Am I wrong? Is there some sort of incentive misalignment in the H1B program? Is it cultural (e.g. like “island time”, which I’ve learned is at least partially attributable…

> Ok, so, I have a friend who works big tech and he has no chill for Indians (SWEs, PMs, etc). Is there a grain of truth to the “lazy Indian” trope? Indian here. First generation, naturalized American, et cetera. I'll be honest and say that my initial response was, “Ugh! Your friend is a big old racist”. Moving on from that reflexive thought, I'll attempt to answer your question of: > I’m asking is there a perceptual…

> It is sometimes possible that a young Indian employee might call you “Sir”

There's nothing wrong with that - it's awkward the first 3 times, a non-issue ever after.

My problem is with the use of flowery, deferential language to mask misunderstandings. My sample count is 3, so I'm not going to say anything about a 1bln+ nation (I somehow don't want to self-identify as the GP's friend) - I'm just noting it happened more often with those 3 guys. I have no idea, even, in what part, if any, it was intentional, so - again - just noting it happened.

What's interesting is that it somehow went away after ~1/2 to 1 years. My guess is that it takes people a while to internalize drastic changes in assumptions they make. I know it takes me around 2 weeks to start pronouncing people's names correctly (sorry!), which requires an effort looking like a rounding error compared to moving countries and cultures.

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