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Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

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Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#171
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>LI has a distinctive lack of chill right now contrary to the company image I don't get it. Did linkedin have an image of being a chill place to work?

Yes, for sure. Don't know if being acquired by MS resulted in this reputation (MS has had the same reputation for decades) but they are well known as a chill workplace.

It's funny, I knew a fairly junior guy 4 years ago there on the east coast and he was portraying an image of being constantly under the gun and overworked.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#172
post #144
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am reminded of this video of a young woman showing a "day in the life" of a LinkedIn employee https://youtu.be/X5TZVhKDwpk

This person is incentivized to show off how glamourous and laid back it is rather than the actual work they are doing in the 8 hours around this 2 minute video, so I'm not sure why you'd be reminded of it.

What’s the incentive to show how laid back they are? I imagine a significant population of tech workers would want to show off how much they work.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, at least among my colleagues - both in the US and India offices.

> India Ok, so, I have a friend who works big tech and he has no chill for Indians (SWEs, PMs, etc). Is there a grain of truth to the “lazy Indian” trope? I always assumed, especially first generation immigrants, would be working balls-to-the-wall. Am I wrong? Is there some sort of incentive misalignment in the H1B program? Is it cultural (e.g. like “island time”, which I’ve learned is at least partially attributable…

I used to loudly proclaim, given previous work experience, that companies that offshore basic internal services like HR and Desktop Support across the world are companies in their bad times & willing to abuse their own employees.

Then my own employer did exactly that after a rough few years and layoff rounds. Some of my Indian coworkers are my best ever, but dealing with sensitive personnel issues (HR & IT type work) while facing time zone and cultural barriers is still prickly.

Remote offices in other countries don't always feel "same team".

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#175
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 10 direct reports across 2 teams, with responsibility for a number of actual deliverable work pieces external to these staff. 10 direct reports is about half a week's work at a bare minimum without development, process improvement, etc. 20 is insane and would lead to skill atrophy and team dissatisfaction in short order.

Why does managing the team takes so much work? Do you need to hold the hand of all your reports?

My team have a very wide and complex domain of work; essentially we cover all of the domain of public health administration - patient management through to billing through to regulatory reporting, etc, etc. My team can be presenting formal advice for changes to statutory inpatient reporting one day, then troubleshooting a billing algorithm the next day, and then writing a FHIR parser the day after.

In light of this I budget the following time for each of them:

1 hour a fortnight for general chat (what I refer to as temperature taking) to see where each of them are at in terms of morale, etc.

1/2 hour a fortnight for 1:1 catch-up covering administrative requirements (leave, review of metrics, etc, etc).

1 hour a fortnight (1/2 per week) for metric collection and review; are they having trouble with specific elements of their domain, are certain managers, stakeholders, customers, etc, holding things up. Their work tickets vary wildly in complexity and scope so this is the absolute minimum I can spend to know where each person is up to professionally speaking.

1 hour a fortnight for mentoring, training, etc. Generally speaking the more skilled staff will contact me more often to "pick my brain" regarding how to approach certain technical/personnal challenges, how to link data across our datasets, who to contact for advice on this or that regulatory or statutory requirement.

And about half an hour per person, per fortnight reviewing their changes or service requests as I am primary CAB representative for my products - and these items are key outputs of the work they deliver.

So, in essence, four hours per team member per fortnight. Very little hand-holding for such a widely dispersed team, and they remain engaged and focused on their tasks with minimum disruption.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, at least among my colleagues - both in the US and India offices.

> India Ok, so, I have a friend who works big tech and he has no chill for Indians (SWEs, PMs, etc). Is there a grain of truth to the “lazy Indian” trope? I always assumed, especially first generation immigrants, would be working balls-to-the-wall. Am I wrong? Is there some sort of incentive misalignment in the H1B program? Is it cultural (e.g. like “island time”, which I’ve learned is at least partially attributable…

Every Indian colleague I had here (Berlin) was a ruthlessly ambitious workaholic (sometimes a reform workaholic that realised they shouldn’t work that hard or they’d burn out), quite often very competent and always very driven. Just as another piece of anecdata.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#177
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 10 direct reports across 2 teams, with responsibility for a number of actual deliverable work pieces external to these staff. 10 direct reports is about half a week's work at a bare minimum without development, process improvement, etc. 20 is insane and would lead to skill atrophy and team dissatisfaction in short order.

Why does managing the team takes so much work? Do you need to hold the hand of all your reports?

I have a team of 13. It's a lot of work. One-on-ones, setting direction, making plans for the coming period, talking and negotiating with stakeholders, scrum ceremonies, quality control, helping people grow, resolving conflicts - it never ends. I enjoy it though.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#178
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon Valley used to have engineering managers who managed engineering. As the money got bigger we got more grifters / professional manager types. First thing they do is rebrand middle management as “leaders” and the other thing they do is make management non technical. This has even bled into making higher level IC engineering roles being “above” coding. “Staff engineers don’t code, they set high level architectur…

I moved over to Silicon Valley fairly late (in 2018), and I was immediately shocked at how frowned upon... even disincentivized technical knowledge was at the management level. To the extent that people started removing hard numbers from their presentations and replacing them with smiley faces. Needless to say, I left and that company TANKED. I think Steve Jobs said something about A people versus C people... well he…

A teams will crush A people every day and twice on Sundays. The lone wolf 10x dev myth needs to die. This is not 1994.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a scam, I like to believe, because I've always gotten good feedback from my teams. But definitely the job description is quite light and a bit handwavy, so all companies could use fewer engineering managers, not more. I myself would volunteer to go back to IC right now.

You think someone is leaving honest feedback on those forms? It's trivial for any manager who is not a complete moron to figure out who left a bad review and retaliate as I've seen happen multiple times in my career (mostly to other ICs but sometimes entire teams)

Not only that, but even if I don't think my manager is the best guy ever, there's usually no point in giving them bad marks on those forms. It doesn't cost me anything to give good marks, and helps them play their own game.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#180
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never criticize a manager. It has very limited upside on the off chance that a manager takes my feedback seriously. OTOH the downside is tremendous. I don't think feedback in a corporate setting from someone you have power over can be relied on.

This. It would be suicidal to leave a manager a bad review. The only thing that works is anonymous feedback which is how Meta/Facebook is so effective at getting rid of bad managers.

Either anonymous feedback, or leaving the team or even company.
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