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Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

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Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#91

Post by FireBeyond »

betaby wrote: post #25
alexpotato wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I see more than 10 direct reports, I think of this quote: "Yasser Arafat had 17 lieutenants (aka direct reports). Why? So he could pit them all against each other: if they were fighting each other and jockeying for position then they were too busy to go after him."

Interesting. Parent comment is about 4:1 even. In my career I saw from 5:1 to 20:1 IC to managers on a direct level. However the higher one go the better the ratio, like VP to SVP ratio rarely reaches 10:1 even. Now I'm curious what are the industry 'standard' numbers.

3-7 is considered the optimal number in high risk (emergency services) situations. Beyond 7, you start to lose insight into what all is going on.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#92

Post by charles_f »

ditonal wrote: post #82
greatpostman wrote: post #11

I have a long held belief that engineering managers are mostly a scam, and are actually just overpaid scrum masters. This is from working at some top companies

Silicon Valley used to have engineering managers who managed engineering. As the money got bigger we got more grifters / professional manager types. First thing they do is rebrand middle management as “leaders” and the other thing they do is make management non technical. This has even bled into making higher level IC engineering roles being “above” coding. “Staff engineers don’t code, they set high level architectur…

> As the money got bigger we got more grifters / professional manager types.

That. Same for all the decorative functions with low value added.

> make management non technical

This is a big flag to me. I know this is a devisive opinion, but I don't think you can do a good job at managing people without knowing their core business.

> making higher level IC engineering roles being “above” coding.

There is little that revolts me more than people working in technical companies, and seeing themselves as above the technical layer. I don't mind people not being software engineers, a lot of them are great, willing to learn a bit of context in order to do their job efficiently and facilitate mine. The same way I learn about the other functions. But I've worked with quite a number of managers, PMs and TPMs who talk down to me the moment I tell something even remotely technical, like I'm some sort of amateurish geek only tolerated at the adult's table. I do my best to stay away from these folks.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#94

Post by [deleted] »

kchandra wrote: post #45
gruez wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>LI has a distinctive lack of chill right now contrary to the company image I don't get it. Did linkedin have an image of being a chill place to work?

Yes, absolutely. I worked there about 7-8 years ago and at the time it was considered a "retirement home" in Silicon Valley.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#95

Post by alisson_dover »

gruez wrote: post #31
kuchenbecker wrote: post #15

I'm at LI and my reporting chain is Sr mgr > Sr Director > VP > Sr vp > CEO. A year ago it was mgr > sr mgr > director > sr Director> vp> svp > ceo. No one in my management chain was impacted but the flattening has been happening organically as folks leave. LI has a distinctive lack of chill right now contrary to the company image, but generally things are just moving faster.

>LI has a distinctive lack of chill right now contrary to the company image I don't get it. Did linkedin have an image of being a chill place to work?

Yes, for sure. Don't know if being acquired by MS resulted in this reputation (MS has had the same reputation for decades) but they are well known as a chill workplace.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#96

Post by throwawaysleep »

greatpostman wrote: post #11

I have a long held belief that engineering managers are mostly a scam, and are actually just overpaid scrum masters. This is from working at some top companies

Scrum masters are the real scam. Let some non technical with neither a background in engineering or tech or management run things.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#97

Post by LarsDu88 »

ditonal wrote: post #82
greatpostman wrote: post #11

I have a long held belief that engineering managers are mostly a scam, and are actually just overpaid scrum masters. This is from working at some top companies

Silicon Valley used to have engineering managers who managed engineering. As the money got bigger we got more grifters / professional manager types. First thing they do is rebrand middle management as “leaders” and the other thing they do is make management non technical. This has even bled into making higher level IC engineering roles being “above” coding. “Staff engineers don’t code, they set high level architectur…

I moved over to Silicon Valley fairly late (in 2018), and I was immediately shocked at how frowned upon... even disincentivized technical knowledge was at the management level.

To the extent that people started removing hard numbers from their presentations and replacing them with smiley faces.

Needless to say, I left and that company TANKED.

I think Steve Jobs said something about A people versus C people... well he was right (even though he was bullshitting, b/c as we all know, Wozniak had the A team at Apple, and Jobs at the C team)

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#98

Post by kuchenbecker »

alisson_dover wrote: post #95
gruez wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>LI has a distinctive lack of chill right now contrary to the company image I don't get it. Did linkedin have an image of being a chill place to work?

Yes, for sure. Don't know if being acquired by MS resulted in this reputation (MS has had the same reputation for decades) but they are well known as a chill workplace.

To be clear, we still get an awesome amount of time off but deadlines pushed are comical to the point of, "well that's not Happening" except not everyone realizes this and is driving towards unrealistic deadlines they will miss.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#99

Post by hnaccountme »

I bet most of the rest are also managers in practice, although they might have had different titles.

Tech companies are full of managers and very few people actually doing engineering. The incentive structures are mismatched since most management practices come from manufacturing or service industries.

Re: Ask HN: 20% of LinkedIn's recent layoffs were managers

#100

Post by tmn »

LarsDu88 wrote: post #97
ditonal wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon Valley used to have engineering managers who managed engineering. As the money got bigger we got more grifters / professional manager types. First thing they do is rebrand middle management as “leaders” and the other thing they do is make management non technical. This has even bled into making higher level IC engineering roles being “above” coding. “Staff engineers don’t code, they set high level architectur…

I moved over to Silicon Valley fairly late (in 2018), and I was immediately shocked at how frowned upon... even disincentivized technical knowledge was at the management level. To the extent that people started removing hard numbers from their presentations and replacing them with smiley faces. Needless to say, I left and that company TANKED. I think Steve Jobs said something about A people versus C people... well he…

Curious, can you expand on your jobs vs woz take. My impression is they were both A players with entirely different competencies
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