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HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

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Re: HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

#21

Post by echelon »

kervantas wrote: post #7

> Says Linux Foundation's OpenTofu adoption "tragic" Yeah, for them, not for the community that they tried to fuck over.

Where's this same vitriol directed at Amazon, Google, et al.?

They've built huge cloud platforms on the backs of open source. These are highly profitable machines that siphon up so much free labor and give very little back. Instead we attack HashiCorp, whose entire product is going to fall into disuse over a fork of the very thing they built. Why is that?

I'm angry at AWS - it's literally just open source software run at scale. None of the infra and software behind AWS is open, though, so Amazon gets to lord over all of it and soak up all of the benefits.

I see it hard to attack smaller companies when the giant is in the corner taxing all of us and making fat margins.

Small companies struggle. Big companies have all the advantages, and we're giving them a pass.

Ugh. I don't get this.

Re: HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

#22

Post by jarym »

alephnerd wrote: post #15

The title is editorialized > there would be “no more open source companies in Silicon Valley” unless the community rethinks how it protects innovation This is a sentiment I've heard from VC friends of mine for the past year now after their experience seeing the inability of Confluent, Sysdig, and even Hashicorp fail to successfully monetize their core offerings by undervaluing them.

They shouldn’t have gone all OSS if monetisation was their goal. It’s their own fault for thinking they could build a base off open source and then monetise it later.

Re: HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

#23

Post by ftkftk »

The title is misleading.

> He said the Linux Foundation’s adoption of Open Tofu raised serious questions. “What does it say for the future of open source, if foundations will just take it and give it a home. That is tragic for open source innovation. I will tell you, if that were to happen, there'll be no more open source companies in Silicon Valley.”

Re: HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

#24

Post by teekert »

jen20 wrote: post #14
teekert wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the interesting part indeed. Perhaps there is a place for another type of license in between gpl/mit and full proprietary. I wonder what that would look like. Perhaps it’s time. But the grey area is just so vast.

I'd imagine it looks a lot like BUSL: source is available, and fine for use in non-competing ways, but using it to compete against the commercialisation efforts that pay for primary development is not allowed. Basically every successful open source company other than Red Hat at this point has the model in one way or another.

That sounds reasonable indeed. But competing against the commercialization efforts is just so vague. It’s also a huge turn off for enterprises, they are already afraid of the GPL, I think enterprises will not touch BUSL code.

It’s nice for self hosters perhaps. But I for one am always thinking about how I can commercialize my self hosting skills (and have been somewhat successful here and there).

Re: HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

#25

Post by aeyes »

... if you want the whole pie.

The open source business model works if the service you provide is to sell consulting, implementation, certification...

If you want the whole SaaS pie then why are you going open source in the first place? To have the community develop the ecosystem for free for a decade making an SaaS business viable before you pull the rug?

Re: HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

#26

Post by MenhirMike »

reactordev wrote: post #18
kervantas wrote: post #7

> Says Linux Foundation's OpenTofu adoption "tragic" Yeah, for them, not for the community that they tried to fuck over.

Yup. The fact that they even mentioned this shows their true motivation behind the piece. It’s not that OSS is bad, it’s THAT OSS is bad (for us)

It's also essentially a public admission that OpenTofu REALLY worries them, instead of just something to sit out or combat by making a better product.

Re: HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

#27

Post by cvccvroomvroom »

api wrote: post #5

This has been brewing for a very long time, and he's by no means the only person or even the best person making these points. Open source dates back to the 1980s but really took flight in the 1990s with Linux, Linux distributions, and the mainstreaming of the Internet. Back then it was mostly a movement for software freedom and openness in contrast to closed source software like Windows and macOS. While it obviously…

80's or 90's open source? There was no effective internet. There were only BBSes and Compuserve. FOSS took off in the 00's.

Re: HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

#28

Post by markphip »

There is nothing inherently wrong with HashiCorp's license. What IS wrong is building a product and community and accepting contributions based on an OSS license and THEN changing that license when it no longer suits them. The reality is that whether it was HashiCorp, Elastic, Mongo or any of the others that have gone down this path, if they had just started out with their BSL-type license they likely never would have become successful and none of this would matter. Instead, they achieve success with an OSS license, then demonize their community and other companies that comply with that license but take away some of their revenue opportunities.

I have been involved in OSS companies. These risks are all well known when the product is starting its life, and yeah it sucks when someone comes along and does a better job monetizing the product you created. That said, it is just so disingenuous for these companies to whine about it later. Do a better job. Build a better product and service. Find ways to add value you can monetize. Do not blame your community because your VC-funded company is not hitting the numbers they want.

Re: HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

#29

Post by israrkhan »

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #10

This is a dumb title for a good article. In that it makes is seem like he is talking about OSS software. The software that powers the entire Silicon Valley tech empire. Linux and OSS power Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc, right down to your 1-2 person startups. He's not talking about that -- he's talking about open source software sales model used by companies like Redhat and HashiCorp. The threat here is that you're d…

They are probably safe from XYZ startup. The real threat comes from XYZ enterprise. Like what Amazon did to Elastic.

Re: HashiCorp CEO Predicts OSS-Free Silicon Valley

#30

Post by worik »

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #10

This is a dumb title for a good article. In that it makes is seem like he is talking about OSS software. The software that powers the entire Silicon Valley tech empire. Linux and OSS power Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc, right down to your 1-2 person startups. He's not talking about that -- he's talking about open source software sales model used by companies like Redhat and HashiCorp. The threat here is that you're d…

> Then you have XYZ startup appears, they takes your open-source code, repackages it and then sells enterprise features, professional services, and support.

That is a feature of the model, not a bug.

Exactly that happened to Git. Good. Happening at last in social media with Mastodon

The point is to have a lot of smaller companies rather than one or two huge companies playing "lock in"

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