Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 253 posts

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#231

Post by MattSayar »

faeriechangling wrote: post #228

People use separate “loyalty cards” which are a pure data for discounts play happily enough. The only reason such cards have become less popular over time is Mastercard, Visa, and Amex have rendered such products redundant. At this point you can also 99% of the time pay cash and efforts to change this face significant political resistance as being discriminatory to the poor/unbanked. I think the argument “why don’t y…

I visited the Air Force Academy football stadium this past weekend. Multiple audio announcements and various signs posted all over the stadium proclaimed the Falcon stadium as a "cashless venue."

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#232

Post by EchoReflection »

so appropriate, literally just saw incoming email from "Shop" (a company I'm sure I was "obliged" to use because some other company that I actually wanted to use told me "we now process all of our transactions through 'Shop'!" This email reads:

We wanted to let you know we’re updating our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy (“Terms”), which applies to the products or services you use, like Shop and Shop Pay. We periodically update our Terms as our services evolve, and to address new laws and regulations. We’ve also made them easier to read.

The changes will take effect on November 6, 2023. Here are some highlights:

Terms of Service

• Broadened the description of the services and features we offer to you and how these services work • Addressed new compliance requirements around Shopify’s role as a platform Privacy Policy

• Explained how we use your data for advertising, and provided information about your consumer rights • Integrated the Privacy for Customers policy, improving transparency about how we process personal information when you interact with a merchant • Updated language to better reflect how our products work, such as Shop • Re-structured parts to add detail about the information Shopify collects and why, how we use it, and how we may share it.

---

Now I "need" to figure out how to delete that account/request erasure of all my personal data. Just did that with "23andme" yesterday and it was pretty straightforward, but still I have to kick my past self for being naive enough to sign up for this crap in the first place.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#233

Post by phyzome »

lxgr wrote: post #129
phyzome wrote: post #73

Use cash more. I know you can't use it everywhere, and for everything, but -- for the sake of privacy, use cash when and where you can. The cashless economy is a surveillance economy, and if you care about privacy (for others, if not for yourself) then you should use cash whenever possible.

Unfortunately, using cash does not by itself create an alternative that can be used for remote/online payments too.

I'm aware. But it does reduce the value of data mining, simply by reducing the amount of data.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#234

Post by bonton89 »

hansvm wrote: post #152
6ak74rfy wrote: post #145

Coincidentally, just earlier today I was looking for one-time-use prepaid cards. I thought I'd buy a few $100 worth cards and use them for pseudo-anonymous transactions. However, all I could find were prepaid "debit cards" (which could be easily tied back to be) our store specific "gift" cards. Curious to see if anyone has a good solution for that? (In the US.)

Visa vanilla is fairly practical for most threat models. I know some orgs are trying to do more ad targeting via security cameras across multiple stores, but afaik you'll have no problem paying cash for a visa vanilla gift card, activating it online (through a vpn or something if you're worried about that level of tracking), and then using it like a credit card at nearly any brick-and-mortar store and many online ret…

I tried to buy something with a new vanilla visa prepaid card while on a VPN recently and found stripe failed the transaction with a vague something happened error. And then found the visa balance check website plays the same game. Googling around it sounds like they've blocked the card and I'll have to call them and wait on hold if I want any chance of getting the stolen funds back. The card doesn't work on my standard IP either now.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#235

Post by bonton89 »

ledgerdev wrote: post #88
wolverine876 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't FedNow payments come directly from your bank account, like a debit card? Credit charges have the advantage of protecting you from fraud - the money is still in your hands; you don't have to fight to get it back.

Yes FedNow (and RTP from the Clearinghouse) are captured from bank account, but are push unlike debit which is a pull like credit cards. I looked into it for bill payments and there's a FedNow feature to request payment but it's still in very early stages I don't know if it's even implemented for any of the banks that do support fed now already.

Interesting. Services like my property taxes and electric bill charge me an extra fee for credit card payment (which I prefer since it is push and also rewards) but they only offer direct bank transfer as the other electronic method which I hate since it is pull. I doubt I'll seem them adopt fednow though.

My solution for property taxes has been to just set billpay every year to send them a check at the expected intervals.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#236

Post by jacooper »

conductor wrote: post #57
jacooper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does visa do the same thing? Do they have an opt our too?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25576113

Unfortunately, it redirects to a new page with no direct opt out. You have to send an email and manually request an opt out.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#237

Post by BrandonS113 »

em500 wrote: post #210
BrandonS113 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. But plenty of Dutch vendor only accept Dutch mastercards and not foreign. The fee s the same. WHY? And foreigners can't get IDEAL or Dutch mastercards. I have gotten used to carry a lot of cash when there. Fortunately, Holland is safe. Someone looked at me very funny when I payed them EUR 500 in cash last week. But we also know why a European home grown payments system is not happening. The incumbent banks h…

Here are the transaction costs for a retailer at the largest Dutch bank: - Maestro, V PAY, Debit Mastercard en VISA Debit issued in Europe: €0.047-€0.06 per transaction - iDEAL: €0.35 - Mastercard en VISA creditcards issued in Europe: 1.70% - Mastercard en VISA creditcards and debitcards issued outside of Europe: 2.50% https://www.ing.nl/zakelijk/betalen/tarieven/betalingen-binn... For a €100 payment, we're looking a…

I have European debit cards. They get rejected in many Albert Heijn when Dutch cards (debit and credit) are taken. Jumbo takes foreign cards. Jumbo gets my (and a lot of my colleagues who pass though) business, AH not. Many restaurants take Dutch credit cards and not non-Dutch European credit cards. I went to a restaurant that takes Bitcoin but not EU debit (and Bitcoin transactions costs are much higher)

So if the fees on non-Dutch European and Dutch cards are the same, what explains this? Xenophobia? That is what my colleagues in Holland say.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#238

Post by y42 »

nologic01 wrote: post #153

Imagine you go to a market notorious for haggling and the company that sold you your wallet monitors all your transactions and reports them to whomever of the market sellers pays most. You are now the fat chicken, ready to be plucked: You just bought a hammer, now you need nails. From your social media trail sellers can also infer you are somewhat of a dimwit. Hurry, nails are in high demand in your area. But no worr…

1. People did not accept this "erosion of privacy". They just don't understand. Mastercard is not going to the every customer and telling them, what exactly they do, what it means and so on. Sure, they ask for "explicit consent", they have contract and agreements and tons of legal documents describing every step. But that does not help people understanding what they do. That is the big misunderstanding of legal requirements like GDPR: It does not prevent erosion of privacy.

2. In general, this is not an erosion of privacy. Honestly? I really do not care what a company does with my transaction data. Why? Because I work in the field of data analytics, big data and I got a little idea of what happen: I'm just a small dot in a very huge picture. Sure, at some point in the very beginning of this process the company tracks my data. But this single data point is not of value. Only the aggregation of an massive amount of data point has a value. Saying "your data" is just framing the opinion into a direction "data collection hurts your privacy". Really no one cares about Mr A from B in C, born in 1900, having n kids and m wifes.

3. You may reply that my data is in danger, if a company is collecting it. That is right. And that's probably the main goal of legal stuff like the GDPR. Data breach can only happen to existing data. No data, no breach. Too easy. But if this is the argument, then you may stop using the internet or any other service.

So, to sum it up: Let's blame the companies for 1 (misleading) and 3 (no security)... but 2? Yeah well. I think it's fine to collect data. I mean... it's a human thing! Information advantage is an evolutional advantage and information comes from data.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#239

Post by hooli_gan »

6ak74rfy wrote: post #145

Coincidentally, just earlier today I was looking for one-time-use prepaid cards. I thought I'd buy a few $100 worth cards and use them for pseudo-anonymous transactions. However, all I could find were prepaid "debit cards" (which could be easily tied back to be) our store specific "gift" cards. Curious to see if anyone has a good solution for that? (In the US.)

Have you tried cash?

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#240

Post by wkat4242 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #136
edmundsauto wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Otoh, companies chasing the highest dollar value customers or differentiating via service may want to take it. Higher ticket prices, more revenue, despite the aggravations. It’s almost as if a business needs to decide if it’s mass market or high end. I would only buy certain classes of goods with my AmEx due to how confident I am that Amex customer service has my back. For example, the Amex platinum card will reimbur…

Yes. This also happens on luxury goods: if you're selling hotel rooms on top of a casino, accepting Amex/Diner etc. is table stakes. Cheaping out on processing fees or putting friction on the payment part will be a signal that you don't understand your customer and will potentially be nickel and diming the experience all the way down, which is clearly not the image you're trying to convey.

I have an Amex card because my work forces me to take one. But I don't find this a "luxury" experience at all. It's really hard to use the damn thing, for example try to get a taxi at the rank in Paris Charles de Gaulle. 90% of the drivers refuse it and the ones that do accept it often pretend the "machine is broken" later.

In other countries like Romania the taxi drivers just laugh in your face when you try to pay with an amex. I hate that thing but our stupid HR VP from the US forced it on all of us. Probably gets some nice kickbacks in return.

Post reply on HN